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  1. #1

    Default New Interior Dept. order expands hunting access on western land

    Yeah, but has Zinke really done anything for hunters and for public lands?

    I believe Zinke is a lackey for the extraction industry and most everything he does is driven by that relationship.

    This article from the Hill claims Zinke has done some great stuff for hunters, but what Public Land POLICY has been improved? What Public ACCESS has been improved? What bio study has been implemented?

    Zinke has a way of waving the shiny object in front of hunters with proclamations like this, while at the same time turning over hundreds of thousands of acres of public lands to the extraction industry.

    He has gutted the Interior Department of key staff and is financially starving the department's important programs.

    This is why Zinke needs to be watched constantly, this is why he is so dangerous to OUR Public Lands. He waves a shiny object and some gullible hunters eagerly pick up his water bucket. They shout to heaven "oh Zinke removed the lead ban!"

    Please - This is one of the oldest tricks in politics. You make a big show and give some scraps to the masses while the real pillaging and plundering continue.

    Don't fall for this drivel, don't fall for Zinke and this administrations attack on OUR Public Lands.

    Here is the article from the Hill:

    Adding to his pro-hunter reputation, Interior Department Secretary Ryan Zinke issued an order Friday to expand big-game hunting access across the western U.S.

    Zinke signed the order while attending the Western Conservation and Hunting Expo in Salt Lake City.

    The order will "improve wildlife management and conservation and expand opportunities for
    big game hunting by improving priority habitats within important and migration corridors across
    the West," according to a department press release.

    The Interior statement said "priority" states for the new measure would include Arizona, California, Colorado, Idaho, Montana, Nevada, New Mexico, Oregon, Utah, Washington and Wyoming.

    "We all know that animals go where animals want to go, and more often than not that's dependent upon natural features like watersheds, rather than whether land is owned by the [Bureau of Land Management], state, or private landowners. We need to manage appropriately. My goal is healthy herds for American hunters and wildlife watchers, and this order will help establish better migration corridors for some of North America's most iconic big game species," Zinke said in a statement.

    Zinke went on to call American hunters the "backbone" of big-game conservation efforts and promised that Interior will "leverage" its land management to study the migration habits of wildlife and improve habitat.

    Zinke has made no secret of his love for hunting, and since taking the helm of the Interior Department he's made a number of changes to merge the passion with government policies.

    On his first day in office back in March, he issued an order that overturned a ban of lead ammunition and fish tackle on Fish and Wildlife Service lands and waters. In September, Zinke issued another secretarial order designed to increase access to various public lands for hunters and fishers.

    In 2018, Zinke's made his push for expanded hunting in the U.S. much more prominent.

    In addition to the hunting expo Zinke attended in Utah this week, he attended world's largest gun trade show in Las Vegas in January. There he spoke with a number of radio hosts and tweeted a number of times about his positive experience.


    Cheers,

    Mark

    Ye Shall Be Free To Roam.......

  2. #2

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    Considering his boss, and the alternatives... I believe Zinke has done more than what would be otherwise.
    Last edited by Sytes; 02-09-2018 at 08:00 PM.
    " There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people." - Theodore Roosevelt
    Live to work or work to live... Your choice.

  3. #3
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    ...Zinke has done more than what would be otherwise.
    That is a fact. Good or bad, depending on your perspective.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Straight Arrow View Post
    That is a fact. Good or bad, depending on your perspective.
    Besides not being sure what Sytes means, I agree with you 100%

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Straight Arrow View Post
    That is a fact. Good or bad, depending on your perspective.
    I would be remiss to share Zinke has fit into the great, "America First" Theodore Roosevelt's shoes though taking the select text portion quoted, perspective may actually be fact to some here.

    ************************

    Onpoint, Let us try a form of the A, B, C's:

    A.) "Considering his boss" = Republican POTUS (That refers to, President Of The United States), Donald Trump.

    B.) "and the alternatives" = All the public land "haters" that pledge to the Republican PLT (That refers to, Public Land Transfer) platform whom Trump could have selected.
    ...he says he’s withdrawing as a delegate because the GOP platform is “more divisive than uniting.” The party’s platform committee this past week endorsed draft language that calls on Congress to pass legislation that would shift some federally controlled public lands to the states. - https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...-rnc/87204196/ - 06/16/16
    Oh snap, He didn't!

    C.) "I believe Zinke has done more than what would be otherwise." = In relation to Marks OP first sentence, "...has Zinke really done anything for hunters and for public lands?" I believe Zinke has done more than what would be otherwise. (that's a Slick Willy wink for ya.)
    I seemed to miss what you contributed to this thread... Oh wait, my bad, you agree regarding "fact", based on perspective. As shared, "Carry on".
    " There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people." - Theodore Roosevelt
    Live to work or work to live... Your choice.

  6. #6

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    I read the actual order and it appears thin on details, but I try and judge each decision on it's merit rather that prejudge based on preconceived notions I may have.

    When I don't know all the details, I often rely on expert advice of those I trust who are certainly more knowledgeable than I. With that said...


    “We’re grateful to Secretary Zinke and this administration for taking the first step toward conserving these areas which have been overlooked or only recently identified. Bringing our conservation policies up to date with what we’ve learned from the latest research and GPS tracking technology will allow America’s hunting traditions to continue to thrive and support our country’s $887-billion outdoor recreation economy," says Whit Fosburgh, president and CEO of the Theodore Roosevelt Conservation Partnership.
    http://www.trcp.org/2018/02/09/new-s...ion-corridors/

  7. #7
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    I would be remiss to share Zinke has fit into the great, "America First" Theodore Roosevelt's shoes though taking the select text portion quoted, perspective may actually be fact to some here.
    I don't understand what that statement means.

    I seemed to miss what you contributed to this thread... Oh wait, my bad, you agree regarding "fact", based on perspective. As shared, "Carry on".
    That statement seems somewhat personally caustic. Was it necessary to express?

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Straight Arrow View Post
    I don't understand what that statement means.
    Means I don't view Zinke as a TR, no matter how much he may wish to proclaim such. You chose a portion of my post to pose your comment - was a simple response in kind directed towards the perspectives shared nationwide regarding Zinke and voiced here. Not specific as a comment towards you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Straight Arrow View Post
    That statement seems somewhat personally caustic. Was it necessary to express?
    Really? Straight Arrow? I do not recall you saying such in the prior thread... Selective in your choice to call one out. Unfortunate though it is what it is within the internet forum world. I'll be sure to watch such comments in the future though. Thank you for pointing that out - today.
    " There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people." - Theodore Roosevelt
    Live to work or work to live... Your choice.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by mfb99 View Post
    Yeah, but has Zinke really done anything for hunters and for public lands?
    Most, even some of his harshest critics, find this directive to be helpful for wildlife and conservation. Thankfully, you would be in the minority of hunters who cannot accept action beneficial for wildlife if it comes from a person you dislike. I'm willing to take the arrows from folks like you by giving Zinke compliment for this action, just as he deserves criticism when he is used as the agent of those anti-public land anti-conservation zealots in Congress who view hunters and anglers as obstructionists.


    Quote Originally Posted by mfb99 View Post

    Zinke has a way of waving the shiny object in front of hunters with proclamations like this, while at the same time turning over hundreds of thousands of acres of public lands to the extraction industry.
    The bigger picture is this; Zinke is the shiny object. Your seeming hatred for him and your desire to focus on someone you seem to hate blinds you to the bigger picture of what is going on. The real shiny objects are the agency Secretaries who are merely appointed employees, not elected officials, who are against our interest are betting will be the targets of the critics. That strategy seems to be working well with regards to your engagement on Hunt Talk.

    Your continual infatuation with all that Zinke does is the exact thing the Utah delegation hopes people will do. Zinke is a bureaucrat, nothing more, nothing less. The Administration has told him to give priority to anything coming from the Utah and Texas delegations, one of which is controlled by the anti-public land influence and the other is home to more oil and gas employees and O&G company HQs than any state in the nation. Continue giving all your attention on the shiny object and see what that accomplishes in the long run.

    Those using Zinke and other agency Secretaries like to see the response when Zinke does something beneficial to hunters, anglers, and public land recreationists. If good actions are met with nothing but criticism and disdain from those who benefit from the policy, it confirms their strategy is going according to plan.

    Quote Originally Posted by mfb99 View Post

    This is why Zinke needs to be watched constantly, this is why he is so dangerous to OUR Public Lands. He waves a shiny object and some gullible hunters eagerly pick up his water bucket.
    Zinke, like all agency Secretaries, needs to be watched because he is the expression of the current Administration and Congressional leaders. Right now, the fringe elements of Congress are controlling public land policy in an Administration that doesn't give to chits about public lands or conservation. Zinke is only as dangerous as those who set policy/budgets for the agency he oversees, which currently is set by some key Committee chairmen in Congress who represent interests that have no love for the things we have as high priority.

    What are you doing to change that reality? Focusing all the attention on an appointee, a bureaucrat, does nothing to change that reality. That reality changes when those in Congress are removed, or lose their Chairmanship, or those leading their parties realize that the fringe policies will cost them votes, which can cost them seats, which costs them power they need to implement policies that are bad for public lands and conservation.

    When hunters and public land advocates make agency Secretaries the "Shiny Objects" of their attention, as you do, they are playing exactly into the hands of those who have put this plan in place. They hope that when anyone speaks to the folly of focusing on the "Shiny Objects" who are the Secretaries running these agencies that such critics get shouted down as carrying water for the shiny objects. You preemptively make that claim in most all of your posts here.

    There is no doubt that you are concerned about public lands. I get that. Your manner of expressing your concerns on this forum has migrated from passion to emotion, and doing so in that manner makes it hard to be effective, even among a group of public land hunters who have serious concerns about what is happening.
    My name is Randy Newberg and I approved this post. What is written is my opinion, and my opinion only.

    "Hunt when you can. You're gonna run outta health before you run outta money."

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    Thank you Big Fin. I view Zinke like the tail of the rattlesnake. It sure gets the attention, but it’s not where the real danger is.
    Fear the beard....

  11. #11
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    Randy said that much nicer than I could. I was going to mention man crushes and leg humping
    I'm an addict...archery, rifles, shotguns, handguns, muzzleloaders, hunting, fishing, fly fishing..and I don't want rehab

    CWEH...Colorado's Worst Elk Hunter 2007-2017 (but I'm still damned sexy) 10 years of consistency!! Taking 2018 off

  12. #12

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    A good read, Randy. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

    Working along with Mark's opening post of tight focus on Zinke and yours that Zinke is, as JLS shared, merely the rattle of a rattler... would there be a different state of public land affairs if, say, Mark Amodei, Rob Bishop, Forrest Lucas, Lisa Murkowski, Jason Chaffetz, or Don Young was brought in as the DOI Secretary?

    While the DOI Secretary is simply a mechanism / tool of the administration that holds office, be it Democrat or Republican, I believe the strength of influence within that appointment is present. The reviews provided to the POTUS, those placed in positions by the DOI Secretary, etc...

    I found this to be a pretty good article that covers both positions without being overboard / eccentric: http://www.govexec.com/state-local/2...-lands/132381/

    Regardless of who sits in the White House next year, though, the direction of public lands management also depends on who occupies key executive and administrative positions in the Department of Interior and Department of Agriculture, as well as how they interact with agency staff on the ground.
    And as you shared,
    Importantly, Congress and state and local policymakers also hold significant power over public lands policies. These policies could include facilitating public lands transfers in one direction, or if Democrats gain seats, oppose Republican efforts to transfer or privatize public lands. The GOP platform recognizes this, calling on Congress to pass legislation to facilitate the transfer of “certain lands” to states and “national and state leaders and representatives to exert their utmost power and influence to urge the transfer of those lands…”
    Again, I believe our fight would be on a much different level if the likes of those mentioned were placed into Zinke's slot - considering Zinke's publicly stated and re-affirmed opposition to the transfer of public land to the States... and of course we all (for the most part, from my position/perspective) know where that would eventually lead if transferred...
    Last edited by Sytes; 02-11-2018 at 02:19 AM. Reason: clarified last line.
    " There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people." - Theodore Roosevelt
    Live to work or work to live... Your choice.

  13. #13

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    I think this is a great move. I've been jaded on him recently but he deserves some positive feedback for this.
    If you've come this far, might as well go all the way.

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    My initial reaction upon reading of this initiative was along the lines of how much "new ground" are we really "plowing" with this effort? Perhaps too course or simplistic an analogy on my part.

    But the concepts, identified needs, and subsequent actions to address issues such as Wildlife migrations, Landscape fragmentation effects, Western wildlife winter range, etc. have been an ongoing dynamic for a number of years with Western public land management. Both with forward thinking proactive measures and actions. And also with affected court actions and appeal processes deciding project implementation measures and directed mitigations.

    I read the News Release provided from an earlier post and found it fairly broad stroked. Granted that this was crafted to reach out and inform a host of different publics. I also read DOI Order 3362. I too find it to be light on specifics and desired outcomes. With much of the language and direction already found with other efforts and directives within the Federal Land Management Agencies of both Interior and Agriculture. To me the emphasis and direction from Order 3362 covers a lot of things Western Land Managers, both State and Federal, have already been doin'. Just my personal perspective and experience from a former Life and World I was a part of.

    And maybe this is just the start of a better recharge and coordination of the important factors of healthy wildlife populations and the incredible landscapes that support them. Through a finer look at migration corridors and winter range. If so we should have hope and applaud this "new ground". And not be cynical to the perception of a free round of "lightly buttered and salted popcorn" being thrown out to the masses.

    In the March-April 2018 edition of BUGLE there is an article by Dan Crockett where he interviews Ecologist Arthur Middleton. Focus of the article starts with Mr. Middleton's efforts and research with the 70 mile migration of the Cody Elk Herd from in and out of Yellowstone. In the article he talks of a recent opportunity to meet Mr. Zinke at a National Geographic function. He presented him with a copy of the migration map and had a brief visit on the importance of the work. Perhaps this occasion gave some impetus to this current direction?

    To my perspective Mr. Zinke fits the personal temperment, pattern and template precisely of the selection criteria this Administration has used to put their Cabinet Secretaries in place to oversee the different Agencies. And by his unending personal reference and comparison of himself to President Theodore Roosevelt. He further infuriates a number of folks within the Republic.
    What Once Were All the Plains of God....Are Now All Just Common Real Estate....

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