CO Public Access to Navigable Streambeds - New Court Case

BrentD said:

squirrel, a flood, by definition is out of the banks. In Iowa, floods do not determine the river banks and quibbling about what is between the banks and what's not has not been a very big issue for me or anyone else around here.

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Ordinary high-water mark means the line that water impresses
on land by covering it for sufficient time to cause different
characteristics below the line, such as deprivation of the soil of
substantially all its terrestrial vegetation and destruction of its
value for agricultural vegetation. Flood plains next to streams are
considered to be above the ordinary high-water mark, and are not
open for recreation without permission.

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Bambistew said:

Interesting case. There is a similar case in Alaska that has worked its way to the SCOUS. The difference is ownership between the feds and the State.

The latest...
http://www.ktuu.com/content/news/Ho...Alaskan-case-of-States-rights--472993343.html

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One possible explanation is that the issues are simply too complex and difficult for the Supreme Court to address without a better record created by the district court – the clever (too clever it turns out) way to resolve the case cut short the lawyerly work that needed to be done by the lower court. The Supreme Court either didn’t want to or couldn’t do this work on its own. Another possibility is that the necessary tie-breaking vote for the Court was missing in the wake of the death of Justice Antonin Scalia last month. This is not entirely implausible. As the argument preview and oral argument review made clear, the stakes in this case are potentially huge, and the issues of federal power of land in the West cleave pretty clearly along ideological lines. It would not be surprising if the four more conservative Justices prefer to read the statute to limit federal power over the lands in question in this case, or, at least, do not feel the need to defer to the interpretation of the NPS over the reach of its authority. And, it would not be surprising if the four more liberal Justices read the statute to permit just this. If this is the case, then the narrowness of the Court’s opinion is not explained by the lack of a proper record or by judicial modesty, but rather by a deadlock that the Court preferred not to air at this time. Better, perhaps, to decide what it could easily (and unanimously decide) – that the Ninth Circuit was wrong – and leave for another day the tough questions about federal power over lands in Alaska and perhaps elsewhere throughout the West.

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squirrel said:

No I'm meaning walk the public sections of river's where bank fishing is currently allowed and check out all the Salmon egg jars, beer bottles, wads of fishing line, etc. (even while being flies and lures only) Specifically the Blue north of Silverthorne (Eagles nest access) or the Co between Pumphouse and twin bridges put in's take outs.

Now if you were looking off your deck and saw a flotilla of 120 paid guests followed by and intermingled with 5-10 rafts of privateers followed by another group of 10-15 rafts of commercial users and during all this you had waders flyfishing every thirty or forty yards, the above comment of "hand them a beer"??? You're gonna need a BIG cooler. And this is an everyday occurrence on the AR or CO during the peak 2 months.

Then Amtrack goes by and they all drop drawers and start hooting and hollering obscenities.

THIS is reality, not the scene that will be portrayed of one hardy fisherman in the predawn light just wanting to hook one of those elite millionaire fishies.

If you do not think this is real go sit above the Radium hot springs for an entire day in mid August and ask yourself would you want those people in your "backyard"... and yes you own the streambed in CO... with some exceptions.

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squirrel said:

So the vertical cut is the enforced "line"?? That would be workable in most cases. For 6 weeks it is the edge of the "Valley" meaning all those flooded hay meadows would be fair game, a millionaires' nightmare... the fishing public's wet dream with all those landlocked "Ox bow" ponds full of huge fish.

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COEngineer said:

Is some of this bad behavior due to the fact that all this activity is concentrated in the few rivers that are actually open to the public? If all the rivers in the State were open to public access, I would assume this kind of behavior would at least be diluted. Also, not all the rivers in the State are big enough for rafting and have hot springs (like Radium). You make a valid point, but I think you are exaggerating if you are saying every river that is opened to public access is going to look like the Arkansas and CO Rivers.

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squirrel said:

Now if you were looking off your deck and saw a flotilla of 120 paid guests followed by and intermingled with 5-10 rafts of privateers followed by another group of 10-15 rafts of commercial users and during all this you had waders fly fishing every thirty or forty yards, the above comment of "hand them a beer"??? You're gonna need a BIG cooler. And this is an everyday occurrence on the AR or CO during the peak 2 months.

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squirrel said:

So the vertical cut is the enforced "line"?? That would be workable in most cases. For 6 weeks it is the edge of the "Valley" meaning all those flooded hay meadows would be fair game, a millionaires' nightmare... the fishing public's wet dream with all those landlocked "Ox bow" ponds full of huge fish.

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COEngineer said:

Is some of this bad behavior due to the fact that all this activity is concentrated in the few rivers that are actually open to the public? If all the rivers in the State were open to public access, I would assume this kind of behavior would at least be diluted. Also, not all the rivers in the State are big enough for rafting and have hot springs (like Radium). You make a valid point, but I think you are exaggerating if you are saying every river that is opened to public access is going to look like the Arkansas and CO Rivers.

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BrentD said:

I have three oxbows on my property that flood from time to time. They are not available to the public, nor has anyone claimed them to be. If I caught someone fishing in one of them, I probably wouldn't get too upset simply because I'd be laughing at them too hard and they would just slink away, "ponds full of huge fish" - only in your dreams. Full of huge algae blooms is about all. No, the stream banks are pretty well defined and understood by everyone.

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BluegrassBilly said:

I'd caution anyone to ever assume the state of the law of stream bed access rights are established or universal. Everyone assumes that the law is settled here in Kentucky (if you can legally access the watercourse, you can legally float it, including temporary anchoring), but having researched this thoroughly I can assure you this standard could be attacked easily. And the result might not be good for public access. Neighboring states have different standards based on when they were admitted to the union and even who granted the property (crown versus state).

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squirrel said:

Paint with a broad brush lately??

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squirrel said:

Paint with a broad brush lately?? I've seen the laughing when Orvis clad anglers pull in and start complimenting me on my beautiful river ranch. I chuckle and say i only get to look at the river myself but they are welcome to fish my ditch, never had one do anything but laugh and get back in their SUV topped with bamboo rods and drive off.

Then a month later I net fish nudging the 30" mark and "dispose " of them before they turn into dog wallowing perfume, what a waste.



I'm guessing you do not ditch irrigate? It keeps the ox bows clean and healthy, depending on specifics of course.

Hell I'd even let Buzzard breath fish it, if I didn't know who he was.

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onpoint said:

Orvis guys with "bamboo" rods. 30" fish. Ditch irrigating keeping the oxbows clean and healthy.
Plenty there for your dog to roll in.................... Good stuff.

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