Yeti GOBOX Collection

CO Public Access to Navigable Streambeds - New Court Case

Different state, different time, same issue(s). Mt citizens are the recipients of a lucky outcome. 76 year old CO guy still in there battling - makes me smile. Hopefully a law firm is with him pro bono.

http://www.outsidebozeman.com/activities/boating/montanas-most-egalitarian-law.

A layman's synopsis. So far, MT stream Access law has stood the test(s) of time. No thanks to some interference from some nice folks out of Colorado (and elsewhere).
 
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This hits close to home and I have a problem with it. My wife and I built our dream home on the Gunnison river in 2001. We have about an acre and about 90ft of river frontage in our backyard. We put our life savings into this place and I built much of it myself. We built a patio next to the river with a fire pit and enjoy many evenings by the fire. If this passes, someone can wade right through our property while we're trying to enjoy some peace and solitude. Imagine if you were having a BBQ and some stranger walked through YOUR backyard? That's what this amounts to in our case.

I'm fine with the current legal opinion that allows floating access of navigable water, but touching the river bottom should remain off limits. If you want to fish, hop in a boat and float through.
 
This hits close to home and I have a problem with it.
I am sorry that it affects you this way. We live on a place not much larger than yours, but with over 900 ft of Gallatin River frontage. We also have a firepit, picnic area, and a grandkid's tree house overlooking the river, but far enough back that there is a buffer space. There is a bench at the river's edge where I often sit in the summer enjoying a beverage and visiting with fishermen and women from all over the world. As a lifelong hunter and fisherman who has enjoyed and appreciated access, I have built my fence back from the riverbank so that fishermen can have an access trail where the streambed travel is problematic. I enjoy seeing people recreating and valuing the blessing of that river, so my attitude is somewhat different from yours. I understand if your patio is next to the river, then recreationists may be intrusive. If the stream access law becomes what it is in Montana, then you may have the tough decision of whether or not to move the patio. Anyhow, 'just another perspective.
 
This hits close to home and I have a problem with it. My wife and I built our dream home on the Gunnison river in 2001. We have about an acre and about 90ft of river frontage in our backyard. We put our life savings into this place and I built much of it myself. We built a patio next to the river with a fire pit and enjoy many evenings by the fire. If this passes, someone can wade right through our property while we're trying to enjoy some peace and solitude. Imagine if you were having a BBQ and some stranger walked through YOUR backyard? That's what this amounts to in our case.

I'm fine with the current legal opinion that allows floating access of navigable water, but touching the river bottom should remain off limits. If you want to fish, hop in a boat and float through.

Boo hoo
 
Nice contrasting perspectives/opinions/attitudes. Very nice. More importantly - INFORMATIVE. I, for one, value paying very close attention to those who I really see differ from me on issues.
The above two posts are golden.
A grateful Montanan.................
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Bigfin should make posts 3 and 4 above mandatory reading as a requirement for continued use of this forum. That's right, that's what I said.:D
 
This hits close to home and I have a problem with it. My wife and I built our dream home on the Gunnison river in 2001. We have about an acre and about 90ft of river frontage in our backyard. We put our life savings into this place and I built much of it myself. We built a patio next to the river with a fire pit and enjoy many evenings by the fire. If this passes, someone can wade right through our property while we're trying to enjoy some peace and solitude. Imagine if you were having a BBQ and some stranger walked through YOUR backyard? That's what this amounts to in our case.

I'm fine with the current legal opinion that allows floating access of navigable water, but touching the river bottom should remain off limits. If you want to fish, hop in a boat and float through.
A different state (Idaho) and a different time also and like you I owned river front property. A dream home, maybe not and it didn't have a BBQ pit or patio. But I enjoyed seeing fishermen along the stream enjoying themselves, especially the kids. High water mark or no high water mark, while I owned the property they were given unrestricted access. A disturbance of your peace and solitude?
 
To me this implies that you somehow believe you bought a portion of the river instead of what you actually purchased, water FRONTAGE. While I can see how one might not want to be "bothered" this is the equivalent of someone buying property that borders a national forest and then expecting to not have to see anyone form the public while enjoying a view onto public land. Further, what is the difference between someone in a boat or on foot? Just that you think someone in a boat will keep moving? what if they drop anchor in your "line of sight". Describing a river as your "back yard" is pretty presumptuous.
This hits close to home and I have a problem with it. My wife and I built our dream home on the Gunnison river in 2001. We have about an acre and about 90ft of river frontage in our backyard. We put our life savings into this place and I built much of it myself. We built a patio next to the river with a fire pit and enjoy many evenings by the fire. If this passes, someone can wade right through our property while we're trying to enjoy some peace and solitude. Imagine if you were having a BBQ and some stranger walked through YOUR backyard? That's what this amounts to in our case.

I'm fine with the current legal opinion that allows floating access of navigable water, but touching the river bottom should remain off limits. If you want to fish, hop in a boat and float through.
 
My property boundary extends to the middle of the river. The landowner across from me owns the other side. I pay property tax for that land, and because it's river frontage I pay a premium. The current legal position is that you can't touch the river bottom by anchor or foot. It's been this way for the 17 years I've lived here. Floating through is fine with me because that's what's I signed on for when I bought the land.
 
Living in MN my entire life, it's hard for me to fathom that someone can own the bottom of a navigable streambed and prevent people from touching it. It definitely doesn't seem right.
 
This may be a fascinating one to watch. I'm sure many different folks with just as many different reasons are a little concerned or hopeful - depending on which "side" one happens to fall............
 
My property boundary extends to the middle of the river. The landowner across from me owns the other side. I pay property tax for that land, and because it's river frontage I pay a premium.
Me too ... and because I'm in the floodway sometimes more than premium!:hump: Although I own to the middle of the river and a small island, my understanding is that the water belongs to the state. Although I am an advocate for private property rights, I also highly value public access rights and moreover, public access privileges to recreate. That is why as a hunter and fisherman, as well as a landowner, I will gladly allow such access.
 
This hits close to home and I have a problem with it. My wife and I built our dream home on the Gunnison river in 2001. We have about an acre and about 90ft of river frontage in our backyard. We put our life savings into this place and I built much of it myself. We built a patio next to the river with a fire pit and enjoy many evenings by the fire. If this passes, someone can wade right through our property while we're trying to enjoy some peace and solitude. Imagine if you were having a BBQ and some stranger walked through YOUR backyard? That's what this amounts to in our case.

I'm fine with the current legal opinion that allows floating access of navigable water, but touching the river bottom should remain off limits. If you want to fish, hop in a boat and float through.

Do you have neighbors next to you? I would assume this is the case since you own a 1 acre piece of ground. I would think your neighbors BBQing the same time you are, would be more of a distraction and louder than a guy fishing in the river at the end of your property.
 
This hits close to home and I have a problem with it.

What's the difference between wadding through and floating? For perspective my wife grew up with the river literally in her yard... it's less than 100ft from the house and this is one of the most heavily fished rivers in the state. During high flow years you can high five people from their fire pit who are floating by. I met my wife when I was 7 and in the last 23 years have not once heard her dad complain about people fishing in his back yard or given them a hard time if they step out of their boat to untangle a fly or make a few casts. At the same time I can't remember any anglers ever being disrespectful of their private property and the guides that float through usually ask permission to fish a hole if we are in the yard hanging out. I'm sure if you having a BBQ your not going to have an angler standing next to your patio... more likely they will briskly wade through with a wave.

Also how is it different than walking down the side walk in front of your house?

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Growing up on a river in Montana, I was very lucky to get to fish, float, pick agates, etc. wherever I pleased as long as I stayed below the high water mark. Then I moved to Wyoming, and the first time I floated down a trout stream my friends told we couldn't even pull the boat over to take a piss. That was a tough one to swallow. I'm probably biased, but I hope the old man wins his case for the benefit of public recreationists.
 
I do have neighbors on both sides of me. They own their property and pay their taxes, so they can BBQ as they please. :) But I would not want them BBQing in my backyard whenever feel like it. This case would open my property to public foot traffic. Imagine if you lived on a quiet cul-de-sac and your backyard was made accessible to anyone who wanted to walk through? I think you'd object too.

Here is something to consider if this case prevails. Who is going to pay for the loss of property value that will result in the change from private to public? If you consider the amount of compensation required statewide it would easily be in the millions, if not billions. Look at what river front land sells for along the Frying Pan, Blue, Animas, Yampa etc. I'm not wealthy by a long shot, my wife and I worked hard to carve out our little piece of heaven, but there are people with deep pockets who I believe will fight this. This may end up in the State Supreme Court. I'm hoping the current law prevails, but it would be nice to have this issue settled once and for all.
 
I do have neighbors on both sides of me. They own their property and pay their taxes, so they can BBQ as they please. :) But I would not want them BBQing in my backyard whenever feel like it. This case would open my property to public foot traffic. Imagine if you lived on a quiet cul-de-sac and your backyard was made accessible to anyone who wanted to walk through? I think you'd object too.

Here is something to consider if this case prevails. Who is going to pay for the loss of property value that will result in the change from private to public? If you consider the amount of compensation required statewide it would easily be in the millions, if not billions. Look at what river front land sells for along the Frying Pan, Blue, Animas, Yampa etc. I'm not wealthy by a long shot, my wife and I worked hard to carve out our little piece of heaven, but there are people with deep pockets who I believe will fight this. This may end up in the State Supreme Court. I'm hoping the current law prevails, but it would be nice to have this issue settled once and for all.

Your property value won't go down. We have river front property here in Montana that's worth every bit of what river front down there is worth. And we can fish wherever the hell we want to as long as it's within the high water mark.
 
I would not buy a large lot next to a cattle operation then complain the next spring that I was tired of the smells. I would not buy riverfront property with the idea I could dam the river, either. If are going allow the river to flow, what is the difference is a boat using a motor or oars to pause for several minutes directly in front of your home vs. someone walking along the edge of the water and pausing the same amount of time as the boat might stay if it tied up to a log for a bit? I am missing something here since I see the river as a pathway of water that rises and falls through the year and is a pathway to carry people using the river, whether in a boat or walking near the edge. Not saying I am right. Am saying I have lived on land with right of ways and have dealt with a government agency declaring a new right of way where one had not been when I bought the property. Society was a winner on the deal so did my part to cooperate.
 
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