waiting period?

"What is more fair than everybody having the same odds every year? "

There are a whole lot of people that think a young kid doesn't deserve a Sheep tag when a 60 year old has been applying for 40 years. We had the discussion on Ifish last year and it was pathetic reading all those comments about those young people "not deserving the tag".
I'd like to see no points myself.

Kentucky has implemented a 3 year wait period on their elk tags starting with those who drew tags last year. I will still probably never draw a tag in my lifetime but at least guys like my dad's friend, who drew a bull tag and cow tag on back to back years is out of the mix for the next three years.

u1299 said:

Not sure if you’re trying to imply based on your data that points or waiting periods are justified or just providing some data that I won’t question. It does I believe make my point that whether my odds go from 0.25 to 0.5 or 0.97 they are still in the neighborhood of 1 percent +_ which is not significant enough IMO to justify penalizing a younger hunter or successful applicant by almost assuring they never draw or draw again. Bottom line 99% of the time someone besides me is going to get the permit, I don’t care who that lucky/fortunate individual is.

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I'm not a fan of our points system, but they definitely do improve your odds if you have more points. It might not be as obvious on sheep tags, but look at this chart for a random breaks rifle elk tag-



The guys with points built up have a huge advantage.

From 2014-2016 I drew Breaks rifle elk, Bitterroot deer, Mountain Goat and Moose because I had max or near max points in each species. The chances of that happening in a random draw are tiny.

WapitiBob said:

"What is more fair than everybody having the same odds every year? "

There are a whole lot of people that think a young kid doesn't deserve a Sheep tag when a 60 year old has been applying for 40 years. We had the discussion on Ifish last year and it was pathetic reading all those comments about those young people "not deserving the tag".
I'd like to see no points myself.

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Honest question here, not trying to be snarky. Given discussions I've heard on various podcasts/shows including Randy's and from talking with a number of guys with Sheep slams, I was under the impression that 30-40 years ago you had a reasonable chance at drawing a sheep tag, elk tag, moose tag? I know a guy who has gone on 3 goat hunts in Utah and my father-n-law hunted a now max point antelope unit in WY 6+ times.

According to MT max points for Sheep, Goat, Moose is 16, Max in CO for Elk is 26...

Does any state even have a draw structure that is 40 years old?

I totally understand being frustrated if you are 60 and have 20pts and will likely never draw, and seeing a 22 year old draw his/her first time with the ability to put in for another 30 years and draw again before he/she is your age.

Randy11 said:

I'm not a fan of our points system, but they definitely do improve your odds if you have more points. It might not be as obvious on sheep tags, but look at this chart for a random breaks rifle elk tag-

View attachment 79121

The guys with points built up have a huge advantage.

From 2014-2016 I drew Breaks rifle elk, Bitterroot deer, Mountain Goat and Moose because I had max or near max points in each species. The chances of that happening in a random draw are tiny.

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I drew a Bull elk rifle tag for the Breaks in 1985 and a Beartooth Goat in 1984, nothing since for either, oh well I keep applying and hope for the best.

u1299 said:

I drew a Bull elk rifle tag for the Breaks in 1985 and a Beartooth Goat in 1984, nothing since for either, oh well I keep applying and hope for the best.

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Was there a system change in there or did you not apply continuously? I just curious why MTFWP shows max points at 16?

As a 62 year old I’m not frustrated when a young hunter draws a tag with few or 0 points, I’ve never complained or said I deserve the permit more based on years in the draw or my age. My son drew a Madison Moose and Goat when he was 14 and 15 years old, he’s now 29 and I hope he draws again before I do. The most fair way is for everyone to have the same chance but I’m sure lots of folks will disagree.

wllm1313 said:

Was there a system change in there or did you not apply continuously? I just curious why MTFWP shows max points at 16?

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I’ve applied every year I could do so.

I, personally, like Wyoming's system. Preference points make everyone "wait their turn" and creates a kind of rotation. To give everyone a chance though, they allocate 25% of the tags into the random draw so everyone still has a chance. I also like the max points cap because it stops the point creep from getting ridiculously out of control such that someone just getting into the points system can never "catch" the point creep. I think it's about as close as you're going to get to a perfect draw system. On a side note, I think there is a problem with a tag allocation system when people are drawing 2 tags before others (who have been applying just as long) even draw 1. And as far as the highly coveted tag odds are concerned, there's nothing that can be done to significantly improve odds for everyone (all age groups and residents and nonresidents alike) which would be the only change that would be fair. Just accept the odds stink and that they're only going to get worse as more people keep applying in the west. We're so blessed as Americans, and we take it for granted too much. I'm just glad that I live in a country where I'm free to harvest my own meat. I'm sure other countries would kill for even our OTC tags. Thank God and the veterans for keeping this great country safe!

Not a fan of points of any kind anymore.
I wish NM would do OIL on more than just Oryx & Valle Vidal.
Like some of the Gila Elk tags should be OIL or sit out 1-3 yrs if you draw.
I know multiple people who have drawn them 6+ times.
Some of our deer hunts too.
Til then still hoping...the same as everyone else. Or so they say.

Oregon does not have points for Sheep and Goats, and they're once in a lifetime. Oregon Sheep draw has gone on for more than 40 years, close to 50.