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  1. #1

    Default CNN's Film 'Trophy; Big-game hunting and wildlife conservation in Africa'

    This popped up on my radar a few months ago, looks to be an interesting film at least I'm curious to see what the over all view/point the film takes. Sounds like the two producers come from both side one went in anti-hunting and one came from a pro-hunting background. At least every thing I have watch so far looks like they take a fair look at all sides of the issue we will have to wait and see. What do you all think will this help or hurt hunting?

    CNN link http://www.cnn.com/2018/01/12/us/tro...ion/index.html

    Movie website/trailer link http://trophy.film/

  2. #2
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    I will be watching, also. With CNN covering the lion issue on the documentary, the timing of this release from DSC is interesting. Maybe it is due to the timing of the annual DSC convention, or due to the fact this CNN release will explain that the majority of lions taken in South Africa are from breeding facilities.

    Dallas Safari Club Position on Captive Bred Lion Hunting
    Few animals in Africa, or anywhere, are as iconic as the African lion. As hunters we understand the benefits of lion hunting. Dallas Safari Club has stated, and firmly believes, that in the fight to save lions, hunters are their best allies.

    In January 2013, Dallas Safari Club announced its definition of the ideal huntable male lion. In May 2013, an international assembly of conservationists representing 84 different countries adopted the African lion hunting policy modeled after that of Dallas Safari Club. That policy is supported by extensive scientific research that shows, clearly, that hunting older male lions has no negative effect on populations.

    In South Africa, captive bred lion hunting is legal. Several professional hunting associations and hunting conservation organizations have commented on the negative impact that captive bred lion hunting has on them and the hunting community in general. We recognize the value of ranching for wildlife. However, to date there is no evidence or scientific research to suggest that captive bred lion hunting contributes to the conservation of wild lion. Under current conditions, the United States Fish and Wildlife Service does not permit the import of captive bred lion trophies from South Africa.

    Dallas Safari Club has a responsibility to support and encourage ethical hunting practices, even where ethical practices do not align with what is legally permitted Ė a principle that helps to define Dallas Safari Club. We have given careful consideration to the arguments and rationale of those who support the practice and those who oppose it Ė arguments made by respected members of the hunting community on both sides of the issue.

    After a thorough analysis and deliberation, the Board of Dallas Safari Club has concluded that the practice of captive bred lion hunting is not a practice that is in keeping with its values of ethical and fair chase hunting. Therefore, Dallas Safari Club does not support the practice of captive bred lion hunting.

    By Editor|January 11th, 2018|From the DSC Newsroom, lion, We Hunt For Life, Wildlife Conservation|0 Comments
    Link here - http://dscnewscenter.org/2018/01/dsc...-lion-hunting/
    My name is Randy Newberg and I approved this post. What is written is my opinion, and my opinion only.

    "Hunt when you can. You're gonna run outta health before you run outta money."

  3. #3
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    From SCI regarding the documentary.

    Member Alert

    Dear SCI Members,

    I would like to add something to my earlier message to you about the movie Trophy that will be broadcast on CNN this coming Sunday. One of the people who appears in the movie is SCI member Phillip Glass. We support Mr. Glass' effort to portray hunting and hunters well.

    It has come to our attention that CNN has made some revisions to the original movie. We reviewed these. We note that there are messages in the movie about the devastation of poaching and the important role that hunters play in supporting anti-poaching. There are also messages in the movie about the complete utilization of an animal taken by a hunter, including providing meat for local villagers. There is also acknowledgment of the benefit a hunter provides by removing a marauding animal, while at the same time providing the funds for anti-poaching. Having said this, there are still elements of the movie that do not portray hunting, hunters or our organization in a positive light.

    Our concern is that all of you be aware of this, and have the resources necessary to deal with any fallout.

    If you or someone else from your chapter is contacted by the media requesting an interview or comment on the film, we ask that you contact our public relations team at scipr@theheraldgroup.com or call 202-617-3008 immediately. Our team will respond accordingly to the request.

    Rick Parsons
    CEO Safari Club International
    My name is Randy Newberg and I approved this post. What is written is my opinion, and my opinion only.

    "Hunt when you can. You're gonna run outta health before you run outta money."

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    I watched this a couple weeks ago on Prime or Netflix, cant remember. My take was that it tried to be balanced. However, I came away with a very low opinion of the pro game farm shooting side and those that take part in this activity. I had a low oppinion of this activity before watching and this show did nothing to change that. If anything it made it worse. I don't really have any experience with this type of "hunting" so I cant say if it was an accurate portrayal or not. It could also be that the shooters they chose to follow are not representative of those that take part in these shoots. I cant say either way. But I can say that I did not walk away with a positive image of this activity or the shooters that took part in it. For the most part what they show is so far from what hunting is to me and what I do that I did not feel it represented hunters at all. It may represent captive animal shooters but since I don't do that, or want to, I took no offense to it. My two cents.

  5. #5

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    It will be interesting to see how CNN take on hunting will be overall. Hopefully a fair and balance look at it. I'll be watching!
    To what avail are forty freedoms without a blank spot on the map?

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    Hope there is some nuance here. And while I support all scientifically based hunting activity, I hope there is some distinction between hunting rare, expensive endangered animals and the blue collar type of hunting most of us participate in.

  7. #7

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    so we know if it will also be available to watch online?

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by CampRipleyLF View Post
    It will be interesting to see how CNN take on hunting will be overall. Hopefully a fair and balance look at it. I'll be watching!
    Fair, Balanced and CNN are not normally used in the same sentence. It'll have an anti-hunting slant I'm sure.

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    Started watching. The type of hunting this documentary portrays is pretty far beyond the hunting I, and pretty much everyone else on here, participate in. Would be nice to document how average hunters here in the U.S. promote and contribute to conservation, but I guess that may not be as big of a story as the African stuff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northwoods Labs View Post
    Started watching. The type of hunting this documentary portrays is pretty far beyond the hunting I, and pretty much everyone else on here, participate in. Would be nice to document how average hunters here in the U.S. promote and contribute to conservation, but I guess that may not be as big of a story as the African stuff.
    A CNN documentary about the average U.S. hunter may be less than glamorous, if done factually.
    An inconvenient truth:
    The "average" U.S. hunter most likely hardly actively promotes conservation. And same only contributes to conservation through the purchase of licenses to hunt and fish.
    It may be easy to be led to think differently just because one participates in this -or other - internet forum(s).

  11. #11

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    I watched this documentary last night, and came away with a even lower opinion of African safari hunting and game farm operations. It's all about the money. It doesn't appear the local villagers are any better off, sure maybe they split-up a little meat, but they are still living in huts and no good outlook in the job force. And on the other hand the safari operations have developed good to excellent game herds on the private ranches, and increased the overall number of animal sightings for paying clients.
    I took a co-worker that had been on two African safari's on a elk hunt in SW Montana for two weekends when I first moved here. He lasted less than a day and half both trips, before he gave up physically and mentally. He just couldn't believe the lack of animal sightings.
    Kalispell Montana home to 75% genuinely good individuals, controlled by 25% of the most arrogant people you will ever meet.

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    The biggest thing I noticed was there was no tangible success shown by the way it was presented. How did that lions death help the villagers and the enconomy is what I was left wondering. I saw a rich white guy complaining about his 50 million he lost and that he couldn’t control the poaching. Then an admitted road hunting poacher (no matter spring, summer, or fall) shoots a lion and cry. If they would of focused on the family that lost the cows and helping them with some of the meat before it became bait. Showed how the money helped them recover or done a follow up with them after the lion was killed.

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    All you saw was an old man shedding tears over loosing 50m??? He must love the rhino and have a passion for them. He has spent a fortune on keeping rhino alive, and knows that the only way to keep them alive is to allow the legal sales of rhino horn. Keeping it illegal does nothing but make poaching more profitable. The poaching may never stop, but at least by making sale of horn legal those who are raising/conserving the rhino will have a means to fund housing rhino and anti-poaching campaigns.

    The game farm thing is not my bag either, but because these animals have a value they still exist. Take the value from the wildlife and what incentive is there to keep them around? It may not be "right" but it's the way it is.

  14. #14
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    I watched this, hoping to learn more about conservation in Africa. I was also viewing through the lens of how this documentary will impact the image of hunting in North America.

    It matters none to me if folks go to Africa and participate in this activity, other than how society will view it and how that societal view affects hunting in North America. I saw nothing that reflected the motivations, values, or culture of hunters I know.

    Motivations matter to society, regardless of the state rationale or reason. The interviews at the SCI convention and the comments of the guy they followed shooting the lion and elephant did not express motivations that most viewers would find comforting. The motivation as expressed in those segments came across as though the collection of animals were a sort of score sheet in life. Not a motivation, perceived or real, that is going to help hunting in a society that could care less about the supposed economic benefits of that style of hunting.

    To each their own, but this did no favors to the average person who is out hunting for food or the enjoying the cultural traditions hunting has in rural America. It did nothing to show how millions of hunters contribute their time, money, and advocacy to the cause of wild places and wild things as a different form of conservation than raising animals on farms as a substitute.

    Maybe what was portrayed is "Conservation" in Africa. I can't speak to that, as I've never been there. The message came across as though hunters are willing to accept farming of scarce and coveted animals as conservation. That is not how hunters view conservation in the place that I am most connected to, North America.

    The average viewer has no context in their life experiences by which to separate what they saw on that documentary from hunting as it happens for most on this forum. Most viewers will think that the whitetail doe, or the bull elk, or the (insert here), was pen raised, that we went out half-drunk, shot it in some artificial setting, and then notched another item on our score sheet.

    Maybe I live in a small world, but if this documentary is how the majority of society does see, or will come to see, our actions; if this becomes even more of their stereotype of a hunter; if this is what they think is our expressed motivations for hunting; and they resolve that hunters have a seeming willingness to farm animals as a substitute for conservation, then I see the road ahead to be a lot rougher than the road we have already traveled.
    My name is Randy Newberg and I approved this post. What is written is my opinion, and my opinion only.

    "Hunt when you can. You're gonna run outta health before you run outta money."

  15. #15

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    Well said BF.

  16. #16
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    The only "value" I took from watching it, is how different and better, the North American Model is than the European/African model of wildlife conservation. We/I see value in the habitat that the animals need, the wild places they need, on public lands that we can all access. We're also lucky that the average citizen isn't living in poverty and is forced to rely on our wildlife for survival.

    I was also thinking in the back of my mind, that many things that are going on here, are starting down the slippery slope of the only value wildlife has is the commercial value (AKA Utah). I think we have to be mindful and inclusive of those that enjoy our wildlife for different reasons other than the hunting side of it.

    I would like to see a follow up story on the North American Model and follow a hunter/conservationist around that is actively engaged in all that it takes to keep habitat in place, public lands in place, and quality habitat and game populations around.

    I think the contrast would be quite telling.

    For the record, I wasn't one bit impressed with the reasoning that dipchit that shot the lion used for why he hunts...he's in the weeds.
    "...the world outside, which my brother and I soon discovered, was full of bastards, the number increasing rapidly the farther one gets from Missoula, Montana." -Norman Maclean

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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Fin View Post
    Maybe I live in a small world, but if this documentary is how the majority of society does see, or will come to see, our actions; if this becomes even more of their stereotype of a hunter; if this is what they think is our expressed motivations for hunting; and they resolve that hunters have a seeming willingness to farm animals as a substitute for conservation, then I see the road ahead to be a lot rougher than the road we have already traveled.
    This was my thought as well. There are two different philosophies and models at play here, North America vs Africa. Virtually none outside of hunting will be able to articulate the difference or their impacts. And a depressing few (more of us on HT, since we are the "enlightened" ones") hunters will be able to speak to how we do it is different.

    Hunting is conservation. That is the tagline for RMEF. Yet that is a message that needs to be clearly understood and championed by us and promoted to the rest of the world. If we were to take away our dollars we through PR or licenses we contribute, what would actually be left? If duck stamps did not by refuges and the like, where would bird watchers go? I'm not saying take an oppressive or aggressive approach, but be strong and unwavering, educated in helping the non-hunting world begin to understand.
    "There are no words that can tell the hidden spirit of the wilderness, that can reveal its mystery, its melancholy, and its charm." ~TR

    "He was a mighty hunter before the Lord." ~Genesis 10:9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Albus View Post
    All you saw was an old man shedding tears over loosing 50m??? He must love the rhino and have a passion for them. He has spent a fortune on keeping rhino alive, and knows that the only way to keep them alive is to allow the legal sales of rhino horn. Keeping it illegal does nothing but make poaching more profitable. The poaching may never stop, but at least by making sale of horn legal those who are raising/conserving the rhino will have a means to fund housing rhino and anti-poaching campaigns.

    The game farm thing is not my bag either, but because these animals have a value they still exist. Take the value from the wildlife and what incentive is there to keep them around? It may not be "right" but it's the way it is.
    All I am saying is that It was not presented in a way I could relate to. I saw at no point a successful model of conservation. I saw a wild animal being domesticated for profit in the name of conservation. In the midst of that story a lion was killed without showing how it tied to conservation in the community.

    I am looking forward to Big Fins upcoming movies to be released. I have a feeling that will show the 5 Ws of conservation that the average person can relate to and understand.
    Last edited by Addicting; 01-15-2018 at 09:28 AM.

  19. #19
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    Agree with all of the above as this really made me feel more negative about hunting in Africa. When the guy shot the gator and then started celebrating and dropping f-bombs it was particularly cringe worthy.

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by BuzzH View Post
    I was also thinking in the back of my mind, that many things that are going on here, are starting down the slippery slope of the only value wildlife has is the commercial value (AKA Utah). I think we have to be mindful and inclusive of those that enjoy our wildlife for different reasons other than the hunting side of it.
    Wyoming commercialization of wildlife on public lands. Requiring public hunters to use a guide in Federal Wilderness (aka Public Lands)? - https://wgfd.wyo.gov/Hunting/What-do...to-Hunt#stamps

    CNN continues docu-dramas on subjects they have issue with. I expect lots of questions from folks in the office tomorrow who don't hunt.
    Last edited by dukes_daddy; 01-15-2018 at 11:03 PM.

  21. #21

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    Didn't watch it. Would rather watch 2-3 episodes of Cops than a CNN program on trophy hunting.

  22. #22
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    Fin,

    Pretty spot on.

    As a hunter I have a hard time thinking that the hunting that was portrayed in CNNs show is something that I would feel good about not to say how the 80% of non hunters looked at it. In fact I said to my wife while we watched it together, "Dear, I never want to go to Africa on a Hunt" hoping to win a few points on $$. In the next sentence I slipped in a moose hunt in Newfoundland would be more my style. Don't know if she caught the second statement. I do believe a better show would have been made if based on our North American Model of Conservation. If my wife is reading, I think the Canadians are doing a marvelous job of moose conservation in New Foundland.

    To put myself in the othersides mocasins they couldn't have picked a better cast to put hunting in a bad light. Of course one doesn't know about editting and maybe they cut the parts that make these folks appear as if they have a clue. I kind of doubt it however but I'm not quite willing to chuck to whole cast under the bus yet.

    I did find myself having a little bit of sympathy for the rhino farmer. I could imagine that if he does go under it would be a mass slaughter. However, if he ever sold a rhino to be "hunted" I think who loses any credibility I would be willing to give him. Maybe it is a renewable resource, I have a hrad time believing his solution can save rhino's at there current population levels, but it would be worth a try. Just don't sell a hunt for them.

    To close, everytime something like this appears, it just makes it all the more important that the rest of us portray hunting as an ethical pursuit of food and our heritage.

    Oh by the way, just got done eating a bison burger and getting an elk loin steak out of the freezer to unthaw for the next day just before the show aired and was setting on my bison robe (draped over the couch against the better judgement of the wife by the way) and using an elk leather throw pillow to rest my elbow on (not the one that the steak came from it ( the pillow) was from 3 elks prior.
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  23. #23

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    When rhinos get old enough they lose the ability to breed but they donít stop being ornery and aggressive to young rhinos.
    I could be a billionaire and would never shoot a rhino, elephant, giraffe, zebra etc but if someone wants to pay $360k to kill that angry, mean old rhino, as long as the money goes to conservation there is nothing wrong with it.

  24. #24

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    Last April my wife and I and a good lifelong friend went to Africa to hunt Cape buffalo.
    Let me preface this post by saying I am far from wealthy I work in a grocery store I like to hunt hard we used to bow hunt elk out of the backpacking camp for over 20 years in the Eaglesnest wilderness area Iíve done a solo goat hunt and 2 solo archery sheep hunts.
    The trip to Africa was awesome I was a little bit concerned about the high fence thing but once you went through the gate you never really Dealt with it unless we drove by to go to a hunting area.
    The places were huge if I wouldíve wanted to walk from one into the other damn sure better pack a sleeping bag. Our outfitters said the fences were for as much to keep people/poachers out as to keep the animals in. We did some spot in stock hunting but mostly we walked. The buffalo hunt was incredible we snuck to them 40 yards and when I shot my Buffalo I was only 2 inches from where my outfitter said to shoot him but I wound up with a wounded Buffalo instead of a dead Buffalo and let me tell you tracking a wounded cape buffalo was everything I had heard about.
    When we cut up with him I shot him again he turned and charged then I shot again in the outfitter shot and he piled up 10 feet to my left. To this day I still canít believe I didnít have a brown stain my hunting pants
    After my buffalo my wife shot an impala then I hunted Gemsbok for four days and never got a shot at one wound up shooting a wildebeest instead.
    The entire experience was awesome and I would recommend to anyone it was nothing like some of the stuff on the tv show.
    Really enjoyed it so much weíre going back for a planes game archery hunt in three years.
    Do I like what we have here better oh hell yes but just do your homework ahead of time and it can be a great experience
    Last edited by Roamer; 01-18-2018 at 05:11 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northwoods Labs View Post
    Started watching. The type of hunting this documentary portrays is pretty far beyond the hunting I, and pretty much everyone else on here, participate in. Would be nice to document how average hunters here in the U.S. promote and contribute to conservation, but I guess that may not be as big of a story as the African stuff.
    My thoughts. Too boring to show what most of us do, so have to find a more screen worthy story...
    Ryan T.
    "My biggest worry is that after I'm dead my wife will sell my fishing gear for what I told her I paid for it!"

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