Elitist Hunters

dukes_daddy said:

- BHA priority of preservation over conservation. Public land management needs to spread a big tent among users and interested parties. I don't see BHA encouragement of this philosophy like other groups; RMEF, Nature Conservancy, DU, etc. Absolute position on national monuments without question on how does the designation affect land management including propagation of wildlife.

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Actually have to agree with some of this. I'm a BHA member, and may continue to be, but the over the top BHA responses to the administrations study of overreach in National Monument designations, and allowing due process for natural resource extraction applications, not in, but near protected areas, is a off-putting to many. I have heard many times on Randy's podcast that public lands are intended for multiple uses - this includes resource extraction. I'm sorry, but those that think public lands should be preserved ONLY for hunting/recreation - do in-fact have an elitist attitude (I live/work in the DC area, and am very experienced with elitists...)

jmveverka said:

public lands are intended for multiple uses - this includes resource extraction. I'm sorry, but those that think public lands should be preserved ONLY for hunting/recreation - do in-fact have an elitist attitude (I live/work in the DC area, and am very experienced with elitists...)

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I don't disagree that public lands are intended for multiple use...the problem becomes when resource extraction takes over as the ONLY consideration of multiple use, and puts the other multiple users about 10 rungs down the ladder that causes heart-burn to many. It also causes the same contempt when regulations, rules, and BMP's are stripped away that address and mitigate some of the impacts of consumptive/extractive uses of MY public lands.

It always surprises me (actually not really) that the only time "multiple use" comes up in a discussion is when it centers around placing extractive and consumptive use over things like clean air, clean water, better habitat, wildlife, intrinsic values, etc.

The way its supposed to work, is that all uses of Federal Lands are given equal consideration, with the most judicious and wise use of the resource, each in harmony with the other, to provide the greatest good, for the greatest number for the longest time, and not necessary those uses that provide the greatest output of resources.

That doesn't happen often, and it happens a lot less/more depending on who inhabits the Whitehouse.

placing extractive uses over things like clean air, clean water, better habitat

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Somehow Wyoming manages to move more dirt in the name of mining than any other western state, have some of the cleanest air in the nation, and provides amazing hunting opportunities all of this on YOUR public lands. Seems to me like extraction is not the issue or Wyoming would be a messed up place for wildlife.

375H&H said:

Somehow Wyoming manages to move more dirt in the name of mining than any other western state, have some of the cleanest air in the nation, and provides amazing hunting opportunities all of this on YOUR public lands. Seems to me like extraction is not the issue or Wyoming would be a messed up place for wildlife.

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To say there are not wildlife/energy extraction issues in WY would be short sighted.

375H&H said:

Somehow Wyoming manages to move more dirt in the name of mining than any other western state, have some of the cleanest air in the nation, and provides amazing hunting opportunities all of this on YOUR public lands. Seems to me like extraction is not the issue or Wyoming would be a messed up place for wildlife.

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Having a population of 560K helps that equation alot versus 1.0M (MT), 1.6M (ID), 2.8M(UT), 5.0M(CO) and 6.4M(AZ).

I agree WY does a lot of things right but we still have issues. They just don't show themselves as readily when you only have half a million people in a State this size.

mtmiller said:

To say there are not wildlife/energy extraction issues in WY would be short sighted.

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Of course, there are issues like that in every state whether there is extraction or not (California). But you will have to agree that with the amount of extraction in Wyoming it is incredible the quality and opportunity that is available for hunting and how good the wildlife is doing. More antelope than any other state, more sage grouse, knocking on a grizzly season, etc all of this with the extraction going on. And the worst thing to happen to the H-G mule deer herd recently was the 2017 winter, again not extraction related. So to entirely blame extraction is not correct if you look at Wyoming.

mulecreek said:

Having a population of 560K helps that equation alot versus 1.0M (MT), 1.6M (ID), 2.8M(UT), 5.0M(CO) and 6.4M(AZ).

I agree WY does a lot of things right but we still have issues. They just don't show themselves as readily when you only have half a million people in a State this size.

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Exactly. Seems like people are causing more issues than extractive industry if you compare those states. Can we do things better? Of course we can, and should strive to. But it gets tiring blaming extraction for all the problems and thinking if we stop that then everything will be perfect.

Mulecreek speaking of extraction, I am in Canada about to commission a 105yd bucket for an 8750...I will send pics.

375H&H said:

. Seems to me like extraction is not the issue or Wyoming would be a messed up place for wildlife.

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I didn't say it was doom/gloom in WY, just refuting "extraction is not the issue".

If you are bored, google.....

Edmunds 2017 sage-grouse
Saywer 2017 mule deer

Scientific data would disagree with your opinion.

375H&H said:

Somehow Wyoming manages to move more dirt in the name of mining than any other western state, have some of the cleanest air in the nation, and provides amazing hunting opportunities all of this on YOUR public lands. Seems to me like extraction is not the issue or Wyoming would be a messed up place for wildlife.

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Then you shouldn't have any problem only being allowed to hunt moose, sheep, goat, elk, bison, grizzly, etc. here:



More and more of Wyoming is being developed and to say it is having no impact on wildlife is a lie.

BuzzH said:

Then you shouldn't have any problem only being allowed to hunt moose, sheep, goat, elk, bison, grizzly, etc. here:

More and more of Wyoming is being developed and to say it is having no impact on wildlife is a lie.

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As a hunter that has regard for the land as well as the critter, every time I see these particular sights, it makes me a (actually more than) a little ill. Not being religious in any way shape or manner, but I can't help believe that if it doesn't bother you - you got no soul.

COEngineer said:

I'm not mad at all. I just feel like dukes is not here for a discussion, but is using the forum to repeat his opinions ad nauseam without even acknowledging other users' replies that completely refute some of his statements. So, rather than waste my time reading more of his opinions in the future, it might be better to not even see that he posted something.

npaden, thanks for the tip.

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I would second this. It is one thing to provide some information and disagree. Unfortunately it seems as though many times Dukes comes here trying to get a rise out of people and derail threads with bickering.

Northwoods Labs said:

I would second this. It is one thing to provide some information and disagree. Unfortunately it seems as though many times Dukes comes here trying to get a rise out of people and derail threads with bickering.

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Quit whining about it, and learn from it. You can learn a lot from people that piss you off. If DD uses this technique - he might be a genius:hump:

Just thought I would check in as a BHA leader in Idaho. Our volunteers put in over 1200 volunteer hours last year. I spent 4.5 hours at the Capitol yesterday with legislators and IDFG to discuss the importance of CWD planning and ramifications of changing trespass laws that would affect sportsmen. For more reference, here are a few examples of other things our chapter volunteers have done.


Created the Habitat Watch program.
Created a student chapter at the University of Idaho.
Members attended state legislature meetings and provided testimony regarding public lands/access.
Served as the VP of the Idaho Sportsmens Alliance.
Served on the Access Yes Funding Allocation Board.
Served on the Nez Perce/Clearwater Forest planning committee.
Served on the Panhandle National Forest planning committee.
Served on the Clearwater Basin Collaborative.
Served on the Salmon Challis National Forest Collaborative.
Met with Senator Risch in Washington D.C. to support public lands and oppose proposed legislation that would allow mechanized travel in Wilderness areas.
Members attended and provided testimony at the IDFG commission meeting in Boise.
Members attended and provided testimony at the IDFG commission meeting in Hailey.
Members attended the IDFG meeting in Clagstone meeting.
Members attended the IDFG wilderness elk collaring hearing.
Members attended the Owyhee Canyonlands hearings.
Members attended a meeting called “Coming Together Over Your Public Lands” in Boise.
Presented information about public lands to the Kootenai Valley Sportsman Association.
Presented information about public lands and BHA to the U of Idaho Student Chapter of the Wildlife Society.
Presented a lecture entitled “Becoming a Public Lands Advocate” to students at Lewis-Clark State College.
Had multiple op-eds regarding public lands published in the Idaho Statesman.
Had an op-ed regarding the IDFG commission published in the Idaho Statesman.
Had an op-ed regarding public lands published in the Lewiston Tribune.
Represented sportsmen at the Idaho Statesman editorial board meeting.
Participated in an interview regarding public lands on a public radio station in northern Idaho.
Members volunteered with IDFG to physically rebuild the Hermit Springs cabin at Craig Mountain.
Members volunteered with the BLM & Salmon Challis National Forest to physically decommission an illegal road in the Salmon area.
Members volunteered with IDFG on a sagebrush seed collection project near Boise.
Provided a scholarship for one youth to attend the Idaho Youth Conservation Camp.

FYI, this was a partial list from just one year. Hope that offers some food for thought.

Here is a project that the chair of the Alaska BHA chapter proposed and helped complete in Alaska last summer. While in Alaska on my moose hunt last fall, I spoke with a group of hunters from the South East that used this strip for a float caribou hunt. They would not have been able to make their hunt happen without the ingenuity and hard work of members of the BHA.

http://www.newsminer.com/features/o...cle_16dab76e-736e-11e7-b12f-2b875ed3e2dc.html

https://vimeo.com/225943024

Dukes has engaged in more of a MM-style discussion. If you've been over there, you'll know what I mean. Nice to see folks over here keeping it more civil.

BuzzH said:

Then you shouldn't have any problem only being allowed to hunt moose, sheep, goat, elk, bison, grizzly, etc. here:

More and more of Wyoming is being developed and to say it is having no impact on wildlife is a lie.

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Converse Count play is what, 2,000 new wells in a large landscape? I'm sure that will be fine.

Cont. Divide-Creston project is over 1 million acres with 10 acre spacing or something like that? Elk, Deer, etc will love that.

Ben, I am getting 123 ac spacing, but that is probably exaggerated as I assume there will be multiple wells/pad. Don't get me wrong, 123 is crazy, but is there potential for 10?

Including existing, I am getting 80 ac. (8 wells/section).

mtmiller said:

Ben, I am getting 123 ac spacing, but that is probably exaggerated as I assume there will be multiple wells/pad. Don't get me wrong, 123 is crazy, but is there potential for 10?

Including existing, I am getting 80 ac. (8 wells/section).

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You're right. I fast-fingered it. Meant to say 100 acre spacing.

At first. No idea what inflill will look like once they get the core developed. The Converse one is in core GSG habitat as well. We've been seeing a lot of shady stuff coming down from some state blm offices in terms of applying stips and such, even filing protests to force enactment of them.

onpoint said:

As a hunter that has regard for the land as well as the critter, every time I see these particular sights, it makes me a (actually more than) a little ill. Not being religious in any way shape or manner, but I can't help believe that if it doesn't bother you - you got no soul.

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It’s not good for deer or sage grouse or those that hunt them in that spot.
But it doesn’t bother me or make me any more ill than this, where you live,



This in Salt Lake City



Or this over nearly the entire Great Plains, where elk and bison used to roam is now fertilized, GMO commercial Ag

Tru dat - not much soul left in my carcass.
How's the solitude factor in Blgs...........