Caribou Gear

Elitist Hunters

3 things I learned by reading this one.

Time to renew my BHA membership, I'm an elitist, and somebody needs to uncinch their garments and have a pint or three..
 
dukes_daddy said:
Response I expected. BHA is an echo-chamber or house of mirrors organization. Everyone has the same views and reconfirms they are right and elite.

Sage Grouse are something we should all be able to focus attention on. I'd respect if I saw BHA encourages members to invite a grazer, driller, or OHV user to join at Pint Night and talk about birds and our common interest to protect and preserve. Amazing what ya have in common over a beer.

Schaaf, Using LWCF government money isn't that amazing. Any stats on BHA acres purchase, easements secured, hours volunteered on habitat or wildlife projects? Oh yeah BHA isn't a tradition conservation organization. I keep forgetting.
Click to expand...

I cant speak to the MT chapter other than to say that I know they do a lot of volunteer work up there, as has been pointed out. Which, IMO, is pretty important work as many agencies are lacking the funds to accomplish things like fence removals, etc.

As the Chapter Chair in Wyoming, I can speak to what we've done here, and the footprint is pretty large for a group that has only been on the ground and running for about 3 years.

We have done several on-the-ground projects donating both time and money to install and pay for signage on FS/Game and Fish identified crucial winter range areas in Albany and Carbon Counties. We volunteered a lot of man hours on buck and rail fencing projects on pole mountain. We partnered with a local cycling club to do a much needed cleanup on a popular shooting area that was a complete mess. Well over 80 man hours invested there cleaning up everything from glass to television sets to furniture...11 pick up loads of trash. It was pretty amazing to see a dozen people out there, on their own time, literally raking up glass on OUR public lands. We are scheduled to do 2 more of these one in Natrona county and one in Albany.

BHA members were also all hands on deck for 2 mule deer captures in Natrona and Albany county last year as well.

Just recently there were some headlines about a private cabin that was vandalized on muddy mtn. in Natrona county. The cabin is owned by a cooperator in our AccessYes program and there was a fear that this vandalism would result in a loss of access to some incredible elk and mule deer hunting. A well respected BHA co-chair was one of the first to personally donate money to cover the expenses of the vandalism. It was also brought to the BHA board and we also made a nice donation to help cover the costs of the vandalism. A reward is being offered to anyone that provides information that leads to a conviction of those responsible, we again donated money to the reward program.

Since the WY Chapter was formed, we've also made donations to the Wyoming AccessYes program every year via proceeds we have from an annual event in Cheyenne.

I'm sure you read up on the Bonander state land exchange that was crushed via BHA taking the lead on that issue. JM77 and I both spent a lot of hours on the phone, attending meetings, etc. to ensure that public access was retained on a very critical piece of BLM/FS that would have been lost if the land exchange happened. The land board rejected that exchange in a 5-0 vote. More importantly, the OSLI office is now taking recreational values into consideration on these exchanges. From personal communication with WGF, they feel for the first time, that they are being taken seriously by the OSLI when they have concerns about recreation, wildlife, etc. with regard to land exchanges.

In the last 3 years BHA has also been very active in the State Legislative sessions, making sure that bills, both good and bad, are dealt with. Most recently, a bill that BHA worked tirelessly on to kill is the 2 consecutive 60/40 bills that WYOGA has ran the last 2 sessions. That bill would have had a huge negative impact on NR youth and those NR hunters that cant afford special fees for deer, elk, and pronghorn. Also, BHA has worked tirelessly to help kill every single PLT bill that has been introduced by the Wyoming Legislature. To the point that Republican leadership here, in both the house and senate, have tossed in the towel on the whole idea. They also addressed our annual legislative reception last year regarding PLT and that they are no longer going to be actively pursuing any further legislation on that tired, worn-out, and worthless idea.

WYBHA is also very involved at all levels of GF issues, from attending commission meetings, being invited to round table discussions, continual meetings with upper management of the WYGF, local biologists, etc. etc. There isn't a single week that goes by, that BHA is NOT in contact with someone at the GF office. I also represent BHA at the annual Wyoming Governors Big-game License coalition where we fund about $900,000 worth of various conservation efforts. Everything from conservation easements to wildlife studies, to fencing and habitat projects.

I could go on all day about everything BHA has their hands on here in Wyoming...RMP's, travel plans, migration initiatives, access issues, the list goes on and on and on.

Just for the record, even though WYBHA is a humble group of sportsmen that don't expect any thanks for our efforts, it was pretty amazing to win the chapter of the year award last year. I may not be deserving of that award, but the other board members, our Wyoming membership, and volunteers across the state sure as hell did.

The reason BHA makes the news, is because we're not one bit afraid of tackling issues and we get results...that simple. Not bad for a bunch of volunteers.

If you can pack the same amount of water...move to Wyoming and I'll give you my position with the State Chapter. Got to warn you though, the hours are long, and pay is low (as in, cost me money to do this as a volunteer), and thanks are in short supply.

Carry on with your whining...
 
Last edited:
BuzzH said:
I cant speak to the MT chapter other than to say that I know they do a lot of volunteer work up there, as has been pointed out. Which, IMO, is pretty important work as many agencies are lacking the funds to accomplish things like fence removals, etc.

As the Chapter Chair in Wyoming, I can speak to what we've done here, and the footprint is pretty large for a group that has only been on the ground and running for about 3 years.

We have done several on-the-ground projects donating both time and money to install and pay for signage on FS/Game and Fish identified crucial winter range areas in Albany and Carbon Counties. We volunteered a lot of man hours on buck and rail fencing projects on pole mountain. We partnered with a local cycling club to do a much needed cleanup on a popular shooting area that was a complete mess. Well over 80 man hours invested there cleaning up everything from glass to television sets to furniture...11 pick up loads of trash. It was pretty amazing to see a dozen people out there, on their own time, literally raking up glass on OUR public lands. We are scheduled to do 2 more of these one in Natrona county and one in Albany.

BHA members were also all hands on deck for 2 mule deer captures in Natrona and Albany county last year as well.

Just recently there were some headlines about a private cabin that was vandalized on muddy mtn. in Natrona county. The cabin is owned by a cooperator in our AccessYes program and there was a fear that this vandalism would result in a loss of access to some incredible elk and mule deer hunting. A well respected BHA co-chair was one of the first to personally donate money to cover the expenses of the vandalism. It was also brought to the BHA board and we also made a nice donation to help cover the costs of the vandalism. A reward is being offered to anyone that provides information that leads to a conviction of those responsible, we again donated money to the reward program.

Since the WY Chapter was formed, we've also made donations to the Wyoming AccessYes program every year via proceeds we have from an annual event in Cheyenne.

I'm sure you read up on the Bonander state land exchange that was crushed via BHA taking the lead on that issue. JM77 and I both spent a lot of hours on the phone, attending meetings, etc. to ensure that public access was retained on a very critical piece of BLM/FS that would have been lost if the land exchange happened. The land board rejected that exchange in a 5-0 vote. More importantly, the OSLI office is now taking recreational values into consideration on these exchanges. From personal communication with WGF, they feel for the first time, that they are being taken seriously by the OSLI when they have concerns about recreation, wildlife, etc. with regard to land exchanges.

In the last 3 years BHA has also been very active in the State Legislative sessions, making sure that bills, both good and bad, are dealt with. Most recently, a bill that BHA worked tirelessly on to kill is the 2 consecutive 60/40 bills that WYOGA has ran the last 2 sessions. That bill would have had a huge negative impact on NR youth and those NR hunters that cant afford special fees for deer, elk, and pronghorn. Also, BHA has worked tirelessly to help kill every single PLT bill that has been introduced by the Wyoming Legislature. To the point that Republican leadership here, in both the house and senate, have tossed in the towel on the whole idea. They also addressed our annual legislative reception last year regarding PLT and that they are no longer going to be actively pursuing any further legislation on that tired, worn-out, and worthless idea.

WYBHA is also very involved at all levels of GF issues, from attending commission meetings, being invited to round table discussions, continual meetings with upper management of the WYGF, local biologists, etc. etc. There isn't a single week that goes by, that BHA is NOT in contact with someone at the GF office. I also represent BHA at the annual Wyoming Governors Big-game License coalition where we fund about $900,000 worth of various conservation efforts. Everything from conservation easements to wildlife studies, to fencing and habitat projects.

I could go on all day about everything BHA has their hands on here in Wyoming...RMP's, travel plans, migration initiatives, access issues, the list goes on and on and on.

Just for the record, even though WYBHA is a humble group of sportsmen that don't expect any thanks for our efforts, it was pretty amazing to win the chapter of the year award last year. I may not be deserving of that award, but the other board members, our Wyoming membership, and volunteers across the state sure as hell did.

The reason BHA makes the news, is because we're not one bit afraid of tackling issues and we get results...that simple. Not bad for a bunch of volunteers.

If you can pack the same amount of water...move to Wyoming and I'll give you my position with the State Chapter. Got to warn you though, the hours are long, and pay is low (as in, cost me money to do this as a volunteer), and thanks are in short supply.

Carry on with your whining...
Click to expand...

Very solid response Buzz. Thanks for all the work and time you put into this. I'm planning on making the jump to a life membership just because of the work/results that BHA gets.
 
dukes_daddy said:
Response I expected. BHA is an echo-chamber or house of mirrors organization. Everyone has the same views and reconfirms they are right and elite.

Sage Grouse are something we should all be able to focus attention on. I'd respect if I saw BHA encourages members to invite a grazer, driller, or OHV user to join at Pint Night and talk about birds and our common interest to protect and preserve. Amazing what ya have in common over a beer.

Schaaf, Using LWCF government money isn't that amazing. Any stats on BHA acres purchase, easements secured, hours volunteered on habitat or wildlife projects? Oh yeah BHA isn't a tradition conservation organization. I keep forgetting.
Click to expand...

Dukes my family owns cows and 4 wheelers, I am a manager at an Oil Gas E&P company, and wait for it a BHA member. Recently I have been trying to get my "liberal greenie" friends to join and support BHA with their reticence being it's a conservative hunting org. Kinda flips your paradigm on it's head.
 
I refuse to be called an elitist by a toady politician. You know what is elitist? Oil industry execs buying billion-dollar ranches and using them to lock out public land access. That's elitist. And that is what BHA fights. With some success. BHA isn't for everyone. Pick the group that best reflects your values and pitch in however you can. But me, I'm proud of BHA.
 
BuzzH said:
If you can pack the same amount of water...move to Wyoming and I'll give you my position with the State Chapter. Got to warn you though, the hours are long, and pay is low (as in, cost me money to do this as a volunteer), and thanks are in short supply.

Carry on with your whining...
Click to expand...

Spot on Buzz.
 
Ben Lamb said:
Troy,

Strip away the bias here. Do you hunt by walking in and exerting yourself, or do you drive an ATV and complain that there's no game? Do you have $75K in debt for toys? Do you want to open up every acre of public land to off road travel while slashing budgets for noxious weed management or even basic maintenance? Do you think we should be able to drive all over public lands during elk parturition or on winter range?

Regardless of organizations involved (RMEF has been a good advocate for roadless areas since their misstep on the Roadless Release Act, and has advocated for shutting down FS roads during hunting seasons since the science indicates greater harvest success by doing so), I think it's fair to say that this is a "basket of deplorables" moment for old Secretary Buster here. He's saying kids with only boots who walk in to hunt are elitists. He's saying that those of us who put the miles in and work to keep wildlife habitat intact are elitists.
Click to expand...

Ben, No ATV and 20 year old trailer. Everything in and out is human powered. The BHA "woe is me" or "we are the pure and true" and divisive application of their standard is not good for the hunting and angling community.

I'm probably just hurt they are doing something called Backcountry Olympics with the Outdoor Retailer crowd in Denver. Getting the real Olympics in 2026 or 2030 will make me feel better.
 
dukes_daddy said:
Ben, No ATV and 20 year old trailer. Everything in and out is human powered. The BHA "woe is me" or "we are the pure and true" and divisive application of their standard is not good for the hunting and angling community.

I'm probably just hurt they are doing something called Backcountry Olympics with the Outdoor Retailer crowd in Denver. Getting the real Olympics in 2026 or 2030 will make me feel better.
Click to expand...

The only "woe is me" on this thread is your high pitched whining...
 
fishing4sanity said:
Come on Bart, look at those elitist companies you represent. Walmart, Costco & Harbor Freight - those are places that only the 1%'s can enjoy.
Click to expand...

I knew my Walmart trekking poles made me look stand offish. :). I think Greenhorn even caught me in my Elitist Dodge Caravan one day. Heck he barely talks to me now.
 
It's the "Tin Cup" whiskey that makes you an elitist, Justin and all ya wanna-be foot hunters. :p
 
I just joined because I thought getting a green rubber ducky as a simple of our elitism was cool. Kind of like the ultimate cool kids club. Now I find out I am a green decoy and an elitist. I feel better already.
 
dukes_daddy said:
Ben, No ATV and 20 year old trailer. Everything in and out is human powered. The BHA "woe is me" or "we are the pure and true" and divisive application of their standard is not good for the hunting and angling community.

I'm probably just hurt they are doing something called Backcountry Olympics with the Outdoor Retailer crowd in Denver. Getting the real Olympics in 2026 or 2030 will make me feel better.
Click to expand...

Elitist.

;)
 
Judging by the responses it looks like Dukes post struck a nerve., mostly because he has a valid point. BHA' leadership is what keeps precipitating these green decoy allegations. Remember BHA director Land Tawney worked for the Obama campaign as a Sportsmen for Obama. Tawney was one of a dozen paid Obama staffers in Montana. “There’s a lot of talk about Obama and guns, and — I’ll be honest with you — a lot of fear,” said Tawney. “But at least he’s not trying to fake it".http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/16/opinion/16egan.html

No matter what political side your on it's inconvenient facts like that makes most sportsmens say whoa. Pretty sure Obama voted in the Illinois state government to Outlaw all semi auto weapons ( your shotgun). But hey at least he wasn't faking it.
 
I always force myself to look for upside. The upside I find from the esteemed Utioans is that I need to up my membership to BHA to a life membership. Between that this and P&Y bowsite thread I can’t help but feel our biggest threat comes from within.
 
Mike21 said:
Judging by the responses it looks like Dukes post struck a nerve., mostly because he has a valid point. BHA' leadership is what keeps precipitating these green decoy allegations. Remember BHA director Land Tawney worked for the Obama campaign as a Sportsmen for Obama. Tawney was one of a dozen paid Obama staffers in Montana. “There’s a lot of talk about Obama and guns, and — I’ll be honest with you — a lot of fear,” said Tawney. “But at least he’s not trying to fake it".http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/16/opinion/16egan.html

No matter what political side your on it's inconvenient facts like that makes most sportsmens say whoa. Pretty sure Obama voted in the Illinois state government to Outlaw all semi auto weapons ( your shotgun). But hey at least he wasn't faking it.
Click to expand...

The only people that worry about these kinds of things are people that cant separate their partisanship from the bigger picture. I could give a chit less if a person is R, D, or I as long as they support public lands, don't really care. I also don't, and never have, worried about the second, since its a constitutionally guaranteed right. My bigger concern has been the NRA's failure to even take a position on PLT. They want to support it, just haven't figured out how to do so without looking like they are kicking hunters in the teeth...or it could be that they don't want to support PLT, but feel beholden to some of their huge donors and don't want to piss them off either by opposing PLT, (which is a plank of the Republican party). So, they do nothing and tread water...doesn't take a spine to do that, jellyfish do it all the time.

Much tougher to take a position, and that does take a spine.

Further, I've seen the NRA take some absolutely horrific positions on things related to wildlife management, public lands, and sportsmen. They would be wise to stick with the second.

Also, in the America I live in, its perfectly fine with me if hunters choose to support I, D, and R's and campaign for them if they so choose. Its childish and ridiculous to smear people for being active participants in the process, no matter their political affiliation. Land Tawney, a United States Citizen, is afforded the same rights as anyone else, including the freedom to campaign for whomever the hell he wants to.

What you're trying to do is silence the massive support that BHA is enjoying by failing to realize the separation between representing a group and the right to still maintain your personal convictions. Professionals can draw that distinction, and Land has never been anything but professional in my personal dealings with him.

Same goes for you...if you choose to support those that would peddle your public lands to the highest bidder, do it.

May the better man win...and good luck with that.
 
Last edited:
BuzzH said:
. . . and never have, worried about the second, since its a constitutionally guaranteed right.
Click to expand...

Generally aligned with most of your (BigFin) post (and I am oft irritated by the extremes of NRA positions) but regarding the 2nd amendment, 4 of 7 current supreme court justices do NOT agree with you. We are simply 1 Obama or Sanders-style presidential appointment (replacing a conservative seat) away from gun rights being regulated by congress, state legislatures and city commissions as they wish. It would take many years and many administrations to unwind our public lands, but one president appointing one justice will likely erase a personal 2nd amendment right all together (but at least the states will get to keep their national guards). And I frankly, am not that excited about exclusively bow hunting.
 
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IMO, the NRA would have more support from Sportsmen if they stuck to the second. One minute the second has nothing to do with hunting rifles, the next it does, depending on their argument at the time. Gets old.
 
BuzzH said:
IMO, the NRA would have more support from Sportsmen if they stuck to the second. One minute the second has nothing to do with hunting rifles, the next it does, depending on their argument at the time. Gets old.
Click to expand...

Agree. FWIW - It was the teflon bullet debacle that really turned me off.
 
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