Outdoor Life interviews Secretary Zinke

I was imagining a slug more...I have known some SEALS who lost their spines when promoted to power positions.

hank4elk said:

I was imagining a slug more...I have known some SEALS who lost their spines when promoted to power positions.

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SEALs are certainly not infallible, there are faulty characters in every profession. In the Army circle I run in, we have a phrase, "Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely". Basically, the more power you have the more likely you are to abuse it.

In some ways I feel sorry for Zinke, as I think he jumped into the deep end with a bunch of sharks playing a game he didn't understand, and now he is just a puppet. In some way similar to what I think Cam Haines is getting sucked into.

“It would look even better if that was a coal train,” About sums it up and an attitude that will ultimately leave us in the China's rear view mirror.

Outside of catharsis, I see no point in attacking Zinke in these threads, or organizations spending millions of dollars to do so. It's a waste of energy and money. He has no reason to care about what the public thinks. He has a boss, who at a moments notice would bend him over if doing so would be advantageous, and has been given an agenda to implement. He is not autonomous.

Here's a question though:

If anyone here were to be given Secretary Zinke's job, in what way would your policies differ? Follow that up with an answer to the question - How would that work out for you? The next question would be -Who would replace you if you got canned and would public lands fare better under them?

I can imagine a scenario where someone who is hating on Zinke here, may act in very similar ways that he has in his position, if only to keep your job, which as much as commenters here may hate to admit is one of the few firewalls we currently have against a large PLT push from Washington DC. The problem is most folks don't have the stomach for such biddable behavior.

A political party with PLT as an explicit goal of their agenda has the executive and legislative branches of government. This is the situation we are in and $#!tting on Zinke does nothing to change that and won't alter his behavior whatsoever.

Nameless Range said:

Outside of catharsis, I see no point in attacking Zinke in these threads, or organizations spending millions of dollars to do so. It's a waste of energy and money. He has no reason to care about what the public thinks. He has a boss, who at a moments notice would bend him over if doing so would be advantageous, and has been given an agenda to implement. He is not autonomous.

Here's a question though:

If anyone here were to be given Secretary Zinke's job, in what way would your policies differ? Follow that up with an answer to the question - How would that work out for you? The next question would be -Who would replace you if you got canned and would public lands fare better under them?

I can imagine a scenario where someone who is hating on Zinke here, may act in very similar ways that he has in his position, if only to keep your job, which as much as commenters here may hate to admit is one of the few firewalls we currently have against a large PLT push from Washington DC. The problem is most folks don't have the stomach for such biddable behavior.

A political party with PLT as an explicit goal of their agenda has the executive and legislative branches of government. This is the situation we are in and $#!tting on Zinke does nothing to change that and won't alter his behavior whatsoever.

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Can't really disagree. Still important to watch and judge his words and actions based on the fact that this will most likely not be his last job in politics.

Nameless Range said:

Outside of catharsis, I see no point in attacking Zinke in these threads, or organizations spending millions of dollars to do so. It's a waste of energy and money. He has no reason to care about what the public thinks. He has a boss, who at a moments notice would bend him over if doing so would be advantageous, and has been given an agenda to implement. He is not autonomous.

Here's a question though:

If anyone here were to be given Secretary Zinke's job, in what way would your policies differ? Follow that up with an answer to the question - How would that work out for you? The next question would be -Who would replace you if you got canned and would public lands fare better under them?

I can imagine a scenario where someone who is hating on Zinke here, may act in very similar ways that he has in his position, if only to keep your job, which as much as commenters here may hate to admit is one of the few firewalls we currently have against a large PLT push from Washington DC. The problem is most folks don't have the stomach for such biddable behavior.

A political party with PLT as an explicit goal of their agenda has the executive and legislative branches of government. This is the situation we are in and $#!tting on Zinke does nothing to change that and won't alter his behavior whatsoever.

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I think the fact that he is open to engagement from the outdoor community (not just the Utah Delegation) is the best we can hope for. Like I said before, keep him out in the open, shaking his rattle. At least we know from which direction we need to consolidate and defend. At best, maybe the idea that he considers himself a "TR" guy, and is willing to be engaged by the likes of McKean, show a little chink in his armor that he is willing to at least listen and just might push back a little when it really matters. At worst, he is telegraphing their punches, and we have time to get out of the way......

You are right.

I agree we should watch him closely and engage him. It just seems that here and elsewhere folks just endlessly attack him. I don't think insulting him will help us achieve any of our goals.

A political party with PLT as an explicit goal of their agenda has the executive and legislative branches of government. This is the situation we are in and $#!tting on Zinke does nothing to change that and won't alter his behavior whatsoever.

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Basically, I tend to agree. However, hindsight has shown that in so many cases the "wait and see" approach has resulted in significant changes which cannot be undone. With public lands, development and/or privatization becomes like the toothpaste you wish you could get back into the tube. Too late; it's a done deal! Forever.

Nameless Range said:

Outside of catharsis, I see no point in attacking Zinke in these threads, or organizations spending millions of dollars to do so. It's a waste of energy and money. He has no reason to care about what the public thinks. He has a boss, who at a moments notice would bend him over if doing so would be advantageous, and has been given an agenda to implement. He is not autonomous.

Here's a question though:

If anyone here were to be given Secretary Zinke's job, in what way would your policies differ? Follow that up with an answer to the question - How would that work out for you? The next question would be -Who would replace you if you got canned and would public lands fare better under them?

I can imagine a scenario where someone who is hating on Zinke here, may act in very similar ways that he has in his position, if only to keep your job, which as much as commenters here may hate to admit is one of the few firewalls we currently have against a large PLT push from Washington DC. The problem is most folks don't have the stomach for such biddable behavior.

A political party with PLT as an explicit goal of their agenda has the executive and legislative branches of government. This is the situation we are in and $#!tting on Zinke does nothing to change that and won't alter his behavior whatsoever.

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I dont necessarily agree Zinke is only doing as the boss tells him to stay employed, but assuming that is true then we have a problem at the top of the ticket don’t we, unless of course you agree with Zinke and his policies in which case all is good.

Nameless Range said:

Outside of catharsis, I see no point in attacking Zinke in these threads, or organizations spending millions of dollars to do so. It's a waste of energy and money. He has no reason to care about what the public thinks. He has a boss, who at a moments notice would bend him over if doing so would be advantageous, and has been given an agenda to implement. He is not autonomous.

Here's a question though:

If anyone here were to be given Secretary Zinke's job, in what way would your policies differ? Follow that up with an answer to the question - How would that work out for you? The next question would be -Who would replace you if you got canned and would public lands fare better under them?

I can imagine a scenario where someone who is hating on Zinke here, may act in very similar ways that he has in his position, if only to keep your job, which as much as commenters here may hate to admit is one of the few firewalls we currently have against a large PLT push from Washington DC. The problem is most folks don't have the stomach for such biddable behavior.

A political party with PLT as an explicit goal of their agenda has the executive and legislative branches of government. This is the situation we are in and $#!tting on Zinke does nothing to change that and won't alter his behavior whatsoever.

Click to expand...

Personally, he has salvaged much of what would otherwise be in the hands of UT State type interests. People may not like it though he is much to play the lightning rod. I have frequently commented play him bitter in a field where he has people itching to stroke him with honey if he jumps fully in with the PLT groupies and you will push him to take that honey and now he is tasting that sweetness of that crowd.

He answers to the POTUS. In this case, the D's failed to represent their constituents properly and they lost a major foothold to represent with some effect. Blame the D's as much, if not more. Everyone knew what the R's platform on PLT is. They've made no bones about it. It is time to face the fire and now because of such a significant loss of representation in opposition to the PLT R's we now have to fight a much greater and uphill battle. They have the Hill.

In his position, as I mentioned before, where the R's run the Executive, Legislative and pretty much the Judicial branches... he is still the better of the choices. I agree with his position on our Antiquities Act. I disagree with other aspects. I don't like some of his crappy responses to questions in the article though also believe it took some serious huevos to reverse his thoughts on the Sabinoso Wilderness deal where he could have played the PLT route versus increasing the Wilderness. I'm sure he was getting pressured to keep that an inaccessible public access area. He had to sacrifice certain portions to the National Monuments to keep with his boss's interest.

Blah, Blah, Blah... On and on. He is struggling to hold it together, as much as he sees possible, in the deep end with a bunch of sharks, as Ross commented.

Straight Arrow said:

Basically, I tend to agree. However, hindsight has shown that in so many cases the "wait and see" approach has resulted in significant changes which cannot be undone. With public lands, development and/or privatization becomes like the toothpaste you wish you could get back into the tube. Too late; it's a done deal! Forever.

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I think what he is saying is that the fight is with the legislative branch and creating an uproar against actions taken by the DOI, Pres, insert agency name here. We know what Zinke is, a mouthpiece for the agenda of the Party/Pres, and we are wasting our breath worrying about him as a person.

Nameless Range said:

Outside of catharsis, I see no point in attacking Zinke in these threads, or organizations spending millions of dollars to do so. It's a waste of energy and money. He has no reason to care about what the public thinks. He has a boss, who at a moments notice would bend him over if doing so would be advantageous, and has been given an agenda to implement. He is not autonomous.

Here's a question though:

If anyone here were to be given Secretary Zinke's job, in what way would your policies differ? Follow that up with an answer to the question - How would that work out for you? The next question would be -Who would replace you if you got canned and would public lands fare better under them?

I can imagine a scenario where someone who is hating on Zinke here, may act in very similar ways that he has in his position, if only to keep your job, which as much as commenters here may hate to admit is one of the few firewalls we currently have against a large PLT push from Washington DC. The problem is most folks don't have the stomach for such biddable behavior.

A political party with PLT as an explicit goal of their agenda has the executive and legislative branches of government. This is the situation we are in and $#!tting on Zinke does nothing to change that and won't alter his behavior whatsoever.

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Very true observation. Thanks for posting it. I completely agree that Zinke has never had control of the reins on public land policy. It is driven by the Utah delegation, a delegation that has promised loyalty to Trump in exchange for him letting them set public land policy. It's that simple.

A more effective manner of advocacy would be to start ostracizing the Utah delegation and their extreme policies. Go after the vulnerable western Republicans, especially Senators, who seem to squirm when asked to follow the Utah lead.

Daines of Montana and Gardner of Colorado are two vulnerable people who will get defeated if they go along with the Utah Doctrine. There are Republican Senate seats up for grabs in Nevada and Arizona later this year. Working with those candidates to see that a person is elected that will show more independence from the Utah Doctrine is a place to make progress. Those are pressure points that could be effective in changing the current direction Utah is leading public land policy.

The hunting and public land community would be best served to make the Utah delegation radioactive waste in the public land policy world. We are not going to change the policy of the White House. Trump sees the west as a place just waiting to be industrialized by his pals. He has no context of life experiences to see these public lands the way we do. Just a fact that must be accepted.

Trump values loyalty above all else. The Utah delegation can, and has, pledged that loyalty with no political risk. They will all get re-elected. Just the nature of Utah politics. They have made the loyalty pledge, but not for free. In exchange, they have been given the final say and the policy lead on public land issues.

That is the reality we are faced with. Public land advocates can continue to hammer on a bureaucrat, what Zinke now is, and it will do nothing to change what is happening. That is what the political orchestrators want us to do. Zinke is their "shiny object" who is a good soldier who will follow orders and do so in spite of whatever flack comes his way. That is his background. While the critics hammer on a bureaucrat, the shiny object, the operatives are out getting their work done.

Public land advocates are far better to focus our energy on places that will have some impact.

Someday it will make an interesting story to explain how it was the Zinke went from a Montana Congressman to Secretary of Interior.

May as well throw in my 2 cents.

I totally agree with both Fin and Nameless Range, it does very little good to trash Zinke all the time, its now more than apparent he never was what he claimed. Time to focus on a different strategy.

But, all that as it may be, I think its also good to keep reminding Zinke about his self delusion of him fancying himself the reincarnation of TR. He's not, and if he doesn't like being shit on...maybe he shouldn't keep dropping his drawers and taking a huge steaming dump on public lands and policy every chance he gets. It sort of works both ways. I'm pretty certain that Zinke still has some control over issues and people giving him a pass on those things he likely has control over, isn't fair either.

I think a classic case is the sage grouse review, he had the means and political cover to just allow the current collaborative process to continue...instead, he acted on his own to "f' that up. He could have just as easily told his boss, "Hey, they already have buy in from Republican Governors, industry, landowners, etc. etc. and all the local input we could hope for, DC isn't pushing an agenda on this issue".

Not what he did though, he managed to piss off everybody, including Republicans, Democrats, Landowners, sportsmen, conservationists...and IMO, it was an issue he had the reins on...and still blew it.

I'm not inclined to just give him a pass as being a Trump puppet on every issue...he has a voice, maybe he should try to use it from time to time.

Nameless Range said:

A political party with PLT as an explicit goal of their agenda has the executive and legislative branches of government. This is the situation we are in and $#!tting on Zinke does nothing to change that and won't alter his behavior whatsoever.

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So we should just keep our mouths shut? Let Zinke and the current administration do whatever they want and take it without so much as a whimper?
I don't think so. I'll keep voicing my opposition here and keep sending emails to my senators and congressmen voicing the same opposition.

Agree that Zinke doesn't deserve a pass when he is an accomplice to dumb ideas. My point is that Zinke is their "Shiny Object" and we are best served to go after Utah.

The entire sage grouse debacle is coming from Utah. They are the only western state that did not willing participate in the sage grouse planning across the west. Their legislature gave Big Game Forever a huge chunk of money to try derail the sage grouse plans. It didn't work. They pissed that money down the drain.

Unexpectedly, a dude from Jersey gets elected to the White House. That resuscitates a bad investment by the Utah legislature and they no longer have to pay for that effort with Utah taxpayer money, rather with a pledge of loyalty.

So yes, keep pressure on Zinke. My point being, don't make Zinke the primary target. He is a pawn in a much bigger game with bigger players.

Gr8bawana said:

So we should just keep our mouths shut? Let Zinke and the current administration do whatever they want and take it without so much as a whimper?
I don't think so. I'll keep voicing my opposition here and keep sending emails to my senators and congressmen voicing the same opposition.

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Nobody is saying that.

You live in Nevada. You can have influence on one of the most important Senate races of 2018, a race that will have a significant role in whether the Utah Doctrine grows or shrinks in the coming years. I hope you and your fellow Nevadans elect a Senator who has sane ideas on public land policy.

Big Fin said:

Agree that Zinke doesn't deserve a pass when he is an accomplice to dumb ideas. My point is that Zinke is their "Shiny Object" and we are best served to go after Utah.

The entire sage grouse debacle is coming from Utah. They are the only western state that did not willing participate in the sage grouse planning across the west. Their legislature gave Big Game Forever a huge chunk of money to try derail the sage grouse plans. It didn't work. They pissed that money down the drain.

Unexpectedly, a dude from Jersey gets elected to the White House. That resuscitates a bad investment by the Utah legislature and they no longer have to pay for that effort with Utah taxpayer money, rather with a pledge of loyalty.

So yes, keep pressure on Zinke. My point being, don't make Zinke the primary target. He is a pawn in a much bigger game with bigger players.

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RE: Grouse. It's more than UT. It's Idaho and the AG of Nevada politically, and the Western Energy Alliance and the Heritage Foundation on the special interest scale. Heritage is largely writing the playbook here for public lands policies, and they happen to comport with the votes UT controls in congress regarding nat resources.

Some of the Zinke accountability stuff I'm not terribly fond of and I think it's hokey and not effective, but honestly, I think by not calling him out it gives him free license to continue his other shady endeavors as he looks to higher office or even a run for Governor. His ambition is larger than his skill set and I think the OL article showcases that well. As a vocal and snarky critic of the SOI here and in other venues, there is catharsis, sure, but there is another issue at play: Ensuring he doesn't get his hands on more power. You cannot look at one issue without taking everything else into account.

Nameless has very valid points. I'm not sure I'm ready to be the guy who gives him a pass for not standing up for what he consistently tells us he believes. Like AM, I'm waiting for TR to show up. To date, it's been mostly Albert Bacon Fall.

Yesterday, on top of the offshore drilling issue which was opposed by a huge number of governors on both sides of the aisle, he eliminated mitigation standards on BLM lands for energy development, sending us back to the 2003 regulations that led to development like the Anticline and elsewhere that have cratered mule deer herds and destroyed habitat. Effectively, this kills a lot of efforts to restore sagebrush habitats destroyed by development at the DOI level and it says the United States doesn't care about how public lands get managed, so long as oil, gas and mining are the predominant uses.

He's gleefully eliminated protections for tens of millions of acres of public land (grouse-related mineral withdrawal alone was 10 million acres of sub-prime land for development, but critical wildlife habitat), He's willfully ignoring the wishes of westerners and governors across the country, abusing his power and his budgets for personal enrichment and he's being praised by the same people who want to take our public lands as the harbinger of their agenda's advancement. DOI just "lost" over 200,000 comments related to grouse. While this is all normal in Trump world, we should be expecting better from Zinke, who has made a career of pretending to be something he isn't.

The Outdoor Life article exposes him for what he is, a megalomaniac & fraud who has little understanding of what his job is.

BuzzH said:

May as well throw in my 2 cents.

I totally agree with both Fin and Nameless Range, it does very little good to trash Zinke all the time, its now more than apparent he never was what he claimed. Time to focus on a different strategy.

But, all that as it may be, I think its also good to keep reminding Zinke about his self delusion of him fancying himself the reincarnation of TR. He's not, and if he doesn't like being shit on...maybe he shouldn't keep dropping his drawers and taking a huge steaming dump on public lands and policy every chance he gets. It sort of works both ways. I'm pretty certain that Zinke still has some control over issues and people giving him a pass on those things he likely has control over, isn't fair either.

I think a classic case is the sage grouse review, he had the means and political cover to just allow the current collaborative process to continue...instead, he acted on his own to "f' that up. He could have just as easily told his boss, "Hey, they already have buy in from Republican Governors, industry, landowners, etc. etc. and all the local input we could hope for, DC isn't pushing an agenda on this issue".

Not what he did though, he managed to piss off everybody, including Republicans, Democrats, Landowners, sportsmen, conservationists...and IMO, it was an issue he had the reins on...and still blew it.

I'm not inclined to just give him a pass as being a Trump puppet on every issue...he has a voice, maybe he should try to use it from time to time.

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Any top Bureaucrat like Zinke just by the nature of being appointed to the position will have somewhat the same philosophy and goals as their boss (that’s a no brainer) but because Trump especially, or any other President doesn’t know everything about everything they’re incapable of micromanaging every move or decision these Department heads make, do you think Trump even knows what a sage grouse is? So yes, any President sets a general agenda he expects his Department heads to follow but it’s ludicrous to suggest they don’t make decisions on their own and deserve to take the heat or credit for those decisions.

Big Fin said:

Nobody is saying that.

You live in Nevada. You can have influence on one of the most important Senate races of 2018, a race that will have a significant role in whether the Utah Doctrine grows or shrinks in the coming years. I hope you and your fellow Nevadans elect a Senator who has sane ideas on public land policy.

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100% agree here.

Congress is the backstop. There are 435 seats up for election in the House of Representatives and 30 some senate seats. There are 36 gubernatorial races and 3 territorial governorships open.

Volunteer your time for candidates, walk neighborhoods, host house parties and get involved in your democratic republic. Be an American.

Ben Lamb said:

get involved in your democratic republic. Be an American.

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This has been my single biggest revelation as an adult... how few people are actually involved. It is now my new years resolution, every year, get more involved, to give back more.