Wyoming G&F Improvements

JLDemo · Dec 31, 2017

375H&H said:
Has the G&F openly stated this? Last I looked it was clearly stated as illegal but I could be out of date.

Do you have a reference?

As for the bear bait, I think JM77 is correct with the outfitters, that and a low female mortality rate would close seasons up quick.

I'd like to see more point restrictions in certain areas across the state for mule deer.

As for walk-in-areas, less focus on quantity and more on quality. I truly appreciate the amount of walk-ins available, but a lot are only open to upland but hold very poor upland habitat and very minimal birds. If they kept those walk-ins but opened them up to all game, including big game, then my gripe would subside. The G&F has done a great job on focusing on strategic WIA's, placing them to open up access to previously landlocked public ground.

Include a primitive season in certain units and shorten any weapon seasons.

Get rid of type 9 licenses all together.

Deleted member 20812 · Dec 31, 2017

375H&H said:
For deer this is the equation I use which may be completely wrong: less bucks killed=more bucks in the herd=more does bred=more fawns=bigger herd. My case study would be Colorado where they increased their herd size through limited quota.

I would have to see the entire range of variables in the Colorado unit, but it doesn't stand to reason in any way for this to be true. Typically, 10 bucks per 100 does is enough to reach a minimum of 90% conception rate in mule deer herds. As such, you can increase your buck to doe ratio from 10:100 to 40:100 and you will likely see no appreciable increase in conception rate. If you do, you are talking 2-3%. Hardly significant.

Fawn recruitment is the biggest driving factor in herd dynamics. This is an excerpt from an abstract relative to mule deer in the North Dakota badlands, and would likely fit very well with a very large portion of the available habitat in Wyoming:

Forward stepwise multiple regression analysis was used to evaluate
the predictive values and functional relations of fall fawndoe recruitment rates with biotic
(antlerless harvest data, buck:doe ratios, population densities, coyote population indices), and
abiotic (winter heating degree days, winter precipitation rates, maximum monthly snow depths,
Palmer Drought Severity Index) variables. Initial results suggest variables with the best
predictive values are March maximum snow depths, total winter precipitation (i.e., January -
April), and proportion of does harvested the prior fall.

Bottom line, you can only fill the glass to the amount it can hold. If the habitat will only support X number of does on a long term basis, that's what you get. Limiting buck harvest will not increase the number of does a landscape can sustain.

Deleted member 20812 · Dec 31, 2017

JLDemo said:
I'd like to see more point restrictions in certain areas across the state for mule deer.

http://www.wafwa.org/Documents and ...e Deer/FactSheets/MDWG Fact Sheet 06 APRs.pdf

After decades of use and many evaluations reporting disappointing results, most western states and provinces
have discontinued statewide antler point restrictions. The two main reasons for abandoning widespread antler
point restrictions are (1) unacceptable accidental-illegal kill, and (2) harvest mortality was increased (focused) on
the very age classes they intended to promote. Available data and experience suggest antler point restrictions result
in no long-term increase in either the proportion or number of mature bucks, or the total deer population.

onpoint · Dec 31, 2017

JLS said:
http://www.wafwa.org/Documents and ...e Deer/FactSheets/MDWG Fact Sheet 06 APRs.pdf[/QUOTE

There ya' go getting all sciency.......

Deleted member 20812 · Dec 31, 2017

onpoint said:
JLS said:

http://www.wafwa.org/Documents and ...e Deer/FactSheets/MDWG Fact Sheet 06 APRs.pdf[/QUOTE

There ya' go getting all sciency.......

Click to expand...

If you're like me, you probably thought wafwa was something you put syrup on and ate for breakfast

onpoint · Dec 31, 2017

Thought maybe it was another trumpism.....cofefve

VikingsGuy · Dec 31, 2017

JLS said:
In the states I'm familiar with, this would require amending state law through the legislature.

I agree, but G&F could push via their legislative agenda.

VikingsGuy · Dec 31, 2017

WapitiBob said:
The Game dept has already done it's job, they don't cite for corner cross.

But my understanding is that local cops/sheriffs still do. (appropriately so, as it appears to be the current law)

VikingsGuy · Dec 31, 2017

JM77 said:
There's nothing too fix.

I, and others, disagree.

JLDemo · Dec 31, 2017

JLS said:
http://www.wafwa.org/Documents and ...e Deer/FactSheets/MDWG Fact Sheet 06 APRs.pdf

Long term gains? No. But APR is a good tool to increase the buck to doe ratio. If you are talking about quality bucks and a older age class, then were getting into a totally different conversation about management. Not APR. If APR's are used correctly, then it can work on a time limited basis. It takes a lot more than just pure APR's to get a unit and adjacent units to sustain a higher aged class bucks. I just believe some units in Wyo would benefit from a short-term APR. Do you JLS, have any suggestions to improve buck to doe ratios or how to sustain a higher age classes? I'm genuinely curious on some points of views from others.

onpoint · Dec 31, 2017

"If APR's are used correctly, then it can work on a time limited basis".

Is that your goal - short term gain??

Deleted member 20812 · Dec 31, 2017

JLDemo said:
Long term gains? No. But APR is a good tool to increase the buck to doe ratio. If you are talking about quality bucks and a older age class, then were getting into a totally different conversation about management. Not APR. If APR's are used correctly, then it can work on a time limited basis. It takes a lot more than just pure APR's to get a unit and adjacent units to sustain a higher aged class bucks. I just believe some units in Wyo would benefit from a short-term APR. Do you JLS, have any suggestions to improve buck to doe ratios or how to sustain a higher age classes? I'm genuinely curious on some points of views from others.

I've said a number of times, the only way you increase buck to doe ratio and increase the age class structure of a deer herd is to limit harvest. You can achieve this by 1) limited entry permit, 2) shorter season/adjust season timing and/or 3) Increase security through limited access (i.e. walk in hunting, etc.), or any combination of the above.

Timing of seasons is important. For example, early September seasons for alpine mule deer greatly increase their vulnerability because of the habitats they are using at that time. Change that season to early to mid-October when those bucks are entering their transitional areas, and the game changes. Early to mid-October is probably ideal for reducing vulnerability.

What are you hoping to achieve by APR? APRs usually only increase buck to doe ratios on a very short term basis, if at all. Any increase you see is typically because of reduced hunter participation in those units. Anyone who has hunted in an APR unit will tell you they are a pain in the ass.

JLDemo · Dec 31, 2017

onpoint said:
"If APR's are used correctly, then it can work on a time limited basis".

Is that your goal - short term gain??

Absolutely not, but it's a gain in the right direction. A start. What would you suggest since this entire thread is based on suggestions?

Deleted member 20812 · Dec 31, 2017

JLDemo said:
Absolutely not, but it's a gain in the right direction. A start. What would you suggest since this entire thread is based on suggestions?

I would equate any gains from APR as equivalent to the gains you achieve by huffing paint. There are so many other ways to achieve better and longer lasting results.

onpoint · Dec 31, 2017

JLDemo said:
Absolutely not, but it's a gain in the right direction. A start. What would you suggest since this entire thread is based on suggestions?

I know a little about mule deer management in general. I feel perfectly comfortable commenting on that.
However -
Mule Deer management in WY? I'll admit a lack of foundational understanding of what's going on there. Thus, understanding my limitations, I'll avoid waxing philosophical

.

JLDemo · Dec 31, 2017

JLS said:
I've said a number of times, the only way you increase buck to doe ratio and increase the age class structure of a deer herd is to limit harvest. You can achieve this by 1) limited entry permit, 2) shorter season/adjust season timing and/or 3) Increase security through limited access (i.e. walk in hunting, etc.), or any combination of the above.

Timing of seasons is important. For example, early September seasons for alpine mule deer greatly increase their vulnerability because of the habitats they are using at that time. Change that season to early to mid-October when those bucks are entering their transitional areas, and the game changes. Early to mid-October is probably ideal for reducing vulnerability.

What are you hoping to achieve by APR? APRs usually only increase buck to doe ratios on a very short term basis, if at all. Any increase you see is typically because of reduced hunter participation in those units. Anyone who has hunted in an APR unit will tell you they are a pain in the ass.

Thank you for the insight. With APR I wish to achieve a lesser impact, that's all. I've hunted in restricted areas and I know that participation in the laws is hit or miss with certain hunters and groups. Are there more appropriate avenues to achieve a well rounded management practice? Probably, and that's why I'm all ears and hope to provide some suggestions to the G&F, which they are open to suggestions right now know through the Forging the Future of Wyoming's Wildlife. This is why I'm asking, hope to bring something to their attention they haven't already heard or something they've heard enough to maybe light a fire to get something done.

JLDemo · Dec 31, 2017

onpoint said:
I know a little about mule deer management in general. I feel perfectly comfortable commenting on that.
However -
Mule Deer management in WY? I'll admit a lack of foundational understanding of what's going on there. Thus, understanding my limitations, I'll avoid waxing philosophical.

I'm not questioning your knowledge, I'm asking for your input on what you know and how it did or didn't work where you're at. Who knows, one little detail that worked in your neck of the woods might be a significant improvement here. I'm not a expert by any means, my knowledge stops fairly quickly in the depths of complex management.

onpoint · Dec 31, 2017

Not being flippant here whatsoever.
Lacking knowledge, I usually try to avoid weighing in specific management of something like Wyoming's Muleys. There are "a lot of ins, a lot of outs, lot of what have yous"

Hit up the WY dept. meetings, stay in touch with the agency personnel, and stay involved on the ground. The public involvement is crucial..........

ClearCreek · Dec 31, 2017

VikingsGuy said:
But my understanding is that local cops/sheriffs still do. (appropriately so, as it appears to be the current law)

There are two types of trespass in Wyoming; criminal trespass and hunting trespass. G&F only enforces hunting trespass, the County Sheriffs Office enforces criminal trespass. It has been determined that corner crossing is criminal trespass so it is up to the Sheriffs Office to enforce. In some Wyoming counties the County Attorney will prosecute people for corner crossing, in other counties the County Attorney will not.

ClearCreek

Topgun 30-06 · Dec 31, 2017

ClearCreek said:
There are two types of trespass in Wyoming; criminal trespass and hunting trespass. G&F only enforces hunting trespass, the County Sheriffs Office enforces criminal trespass. It has been determined that corner crossing is criminal trespass so it is up to the Sheriffs Office to enforce. In some Wyoming counties the County Attorney will prosecute people for corner crossing, in other counties the County Attorney will not.

ClearCreek

Actually I don't believe that is quite accurate the way you described it. I don't think any court or the AG has determined that it's actually a criminal trespass situation, but some of the counties will press charges using that statute and I'd bet it's because they figure it will be mostly NRs that corner jump and will not argue a ticket due to the huge expense it would entail compared to just paying the ticket and getting on with life.

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