interesting read on trophy bighorns

While I'm glad to see the direction the research is investigating, this is not new, nothing being "discovered" here.

Sheep Bios knew and practiced this management principle decades ago, Geist, Wishart, and others.

Then the next generation of Bios had to do something new and "better", ego and all.... lower allowable harvest, less hunting....

What is old is new again, which can be cool, especially when the new kid gives credit where it is due.
 
Lots of attention to the ram porn, and nothing for the ladies....

What's up?

Are you shy, ashamed, gay?

:hump:
 
Less biomass on the mountain will certainly free up resources for others to utilize. That's not new.

Every sheep biologist will tell you they are far more worried about pneumonia than growing horns. Pour that study money into that and then we can talk about harvesting ewes. Personally, I would rather see these sheep transplanted to viable areas.
 
I would agree that improving habitat is an important factor. Burns and weed control are a couple options for improving habitat.

Another benefit to hunting is scattering sheep so they aren't concentrated in the same area for extended lengths of time.
 
Seeing this thread come to life....

I am still disgusted that the researcher is claiming this to be something he "Discovered".
Makes me wonder just how ignorant he or his ego is....


This has been researched with positive results since the 70's....
The only reason this management direction lost some favour is the increasing trend in researchers to find ways to manage wildlife without human induced mortalities.

Here is a paper mainly focused on exactly what the new kid is claiming as his discovery....
https://www.researchgate.net/public...n_Density_on_Horn_Development_in_Bighorn_Rams


jims said:
I would agree that improving habitat is an important factor. Burns and weed control are a couple options for improving habitat.

Another benefit to hunting is scattering sheep so they aren't concentrated in the same area for extended lengths of time.
Click to expand...


That could be a tough sell.... Don't sheep usually head to escape terrain when pressured enough to leave their "preferred" range?
If this escape terrain held better food, don't you think that would be enough to influence them to go there without hunting pressure?

If anything, Any human disturbance that displaces animals from their preferred location is going to be a net drain on their energy.
 
Agressive work to keep the Wild Horse Island bighorn population in check has resulted in the large horns from the island in the recent past.

http://missoulian.com/news/local/bi...cle_7cd6cb4a-9f53-11e3-a944-0019bb2963f4.html

Proper nutrition leading to increased horn growth is nothing new. Keeping herds at a sustainable number is really what the original article is about. A lot of hunters today don't seem to understand this basic concept.
 
EYJONAS! said:
Your pretty fired up about this Mr. Buffalo arent ya?
Click to expand...

Yah, I have been hot about his one for a few years...

There is major worldwide anti-hunting action being pushed in the scientific community, it is called Compassionate Conservation.
Essentially, the concept is to eliminate human interference in "Natural" wildlife processes, including hunting.

Many have heard of research claims that hunting is causing a "Genetic Selection" for smaller bucks,bulls,rams... This is Compassionate Conservation at work.

Part of the battle in Alberta against the incremental introduction of the Compassionate model has been a fight with certain scientists claiming this genetic harm in Bighorns due to hunting regulations. The counter to their suppositions has been comprised of research into habitat conditions, herd density, ewe fecundity....

We have been able to counter the "genetic selection" harm claim.... but now these people simply shifted to a "phenotype selection" harm....


This fight is focused on Bighorns, but the Compassionate research is intended to be applied to ALL Big Game, Worldwide.

So yah, I get worked up about this, With a fire that burns to keep hunting a crucial component of wildlife management. Management concepts such as those discovered by the young biologist are in need of understanding and support by the hunting community. If it takes talking a little loud and giving a few pokes to wake people up, I'll do that. :)
 
Would a "any legal ram" mentality work? I'm assuming there's guy out there that draw a tag and are just happy to shoot a sheep. Might save a few big boys that way!

I'm still wishing they had of transplanted them to nz instead of tahr, I'd live on those mountains!
 
walking buffalo said:
Yah, I have been hot about his one for a few years...

There is major worldwide anti-hunting action being pushed in the scientific community, it is called Compassionate Conservation.
Essentially, the concept is to eliminate human interference in "Natural" wildlife processes, including hunting.

Many have heard of research claims that hunting is causing a "Genetic Selection" for smaller bucks,bulls,rams... This is Compassionate Conservation at work.

Part of the battle in Alberta against the incremental introduction of the Compassionate model has been a fight with certain scientists claiming this genetic harm in Bighorns due to hunting regulations. The counter to their suppositions has been comprised of research into habitat conditions, herd density, ewe fecundity....

We have been able to counter the "genetic selection" harm claim.... but now these people simply shifted to a "phenotype selection" harm....


This fight is focused on Bighorns, but the Compassionate research is intended to be applied to ALL Big Game, Worldwide.

So yah, I get worked up about this, With a fire that burns to keep hunting a crucial component of wildlife management. Management concepts such as those discovered by the young biologist are in need of understanding and support by the hunting community. If it takes talking a little loud and giving a few pokes to wake people up, I'll do that. :)
Click to expand...

From what little I have able to find out about this "compassionate conservation", I have found myself less than alarmed. Not saying I know a lot here, but I'm just not afraid of this as a creeping boogeyman yet. Seems relatively little supported in most of the "field". However, as the world becomes more internet based than folks actually experiencing the natural world - who knows..... If people continue to get out less and less to hunt, fish, fill in the consumptive use, etc. - the North American model will lose it's usefulness and who knows what will take it's place. Real big picture stuff here........
Scary thing though - a different type of person is getting into the fish and wildlife field than 30+ years ago, and the emphasis in the FWL mgmt academic world has/is changed from back then, too.
Consumptive users of fish and wildlife resources better be at least a little aware of this while they are blah blahing about the 6.5 vs the best binos......
Oh yeah, one last thing. I most likely have way less hunting and fishing ahead of me than I do behind me. So I tend to be less worried about the (read my) future than I used to be. Maybe folks with kids who think this stuff is cool might wanna' wake up though??.................................
 
Last edited:
onpoint said:
From what little I have able to find out about this "compassionate conservation", I have found myself less than alarmed. Not saying I know a lot here, but I'm just not afraid of this as a creeping boogeyman yet. Seems relatively little supported in most of the "field". However, as the world becomes more internet based than folks actually experiencing the natural world - who knows..... If people continue to get out less and less to hunt, fish, fill in the consumptive use, etc. - the North American model will lose it's usefulness and who knows what will take it's place. Real big picture stuff here........
Scary thing though - a different type of person is getting into the fish and wildlife field than 30+ years ago, and the emphasis in the FWL mgmt academic world has/is changed from back then, too.
Consumptive users of fish and wildlife resources better be at least a little aware of this while they are blah blahing about the 6.5 vs the best binos......
Oh yeah, one last thing. I most likely have way less hunting and fishing ahead of me than I do behind me. So I tend to be less worried about the (read my) future than I used to be. Maybe folks with kids who think this stuff is cool might wanna' wake up though??.................................
Click to expand...

I came across this recent article, onpoint, while looking up other bighorn information. I didn't know this was being considered and no one had brought it up. Lots of strong opinions amongst some of the Bozeman area wildlife community. Your thoughts on this new proposal to open up the Greenhorns to sheep hunting?

https://www.bozemandailychronicle.c...cle_9734e0c9-7115-5ee8-bf9e-fc85cb9affed.html
 
For now, BHR, I'll stick to just snapping photos of sheep while pontificating about big picture stuff to largely deaf ears.:D
 
I read the OP's linked article and I did not see any bragging by the UW researcher like what some of the comments here seem to infer. The only statements I saw were very matter-of-fact; "I did this research, here are the results" kind of language.

Maybe some people think the results are obvious, but I can understand the desire to prove it scientifically. The opposite(?) idea, that maximizing the herd size could result in a few really large specimens is not intuitively wrong, at least to me. So the research showing that having fewer sheep actually increases the number of large-horned rams was worthwhile, in my opinion.
 
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