sd points

schmalts said:
I thought most species were already a preference point draw there?? Am I wrong? Because if it is, I don't know what cubing points would do.
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Cubing points changes draw odds dramatically.

As an example let's say you have 3 points and I have 15. In the way the draw used to work for every point you had in the draw I had 5. Fair enough. Now let's cube the points. Your 3 points now turns into 27. Great! More chances. My 15 points turns into 3375 points. Now, for every point you have in the draw I have 125 points.

Massive difference. And one that will take decades to sort out if ever. The problem with elk in South Dakota, and this is my primary complaint with this change, is that in the best units we have less than 200 tags being given with thousands of people applying. It going to take forever for those high point holders to work out of this system. In the meantime, new hunters will be completely shut out.

They didn't address any of my concerns in a meaningful way including what this does to revenue. Once people understand what this means are they really going to buy a point for something they have an almost zero chance of drawing? On the flip side, SDGFP isn't doing anything to explain to people what this change means, or even that it has happened, so honestly, maybe nothing will change. In my opinion very few people know how our draw works, even the state employees whose job it is to know these things.

Cow tags and move on is my plan.
 
ccc23454 said:
Why is hunting so complex? Maybe i should of paid attention in math class but this is getting way overthought. How does some learn to hunt if they cant get tags? Residents should get otc tags for atleast deer, in wyoming we also get elk (which we should) and should also get a lope tag but we dont....not sure why there is more of them than deer or even people. My policy would be otc then simple lottery on limited oppurtunity hunts, guy applying first time gets same chance as 20 year guys. In the end its about $

Chris
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Because in SD 90-95% of the land is privately owned and our animal populations are much smaller than Wyoming. Add in the demand from hunters and there just isn't enough opportunity to go around.
 
warmer said:
Because in SD 90-95% of the land is privately owned and our animal populations are much smaller than Wyoming. Add in the demand from hunters and there just isn't enough opportunity to go around.
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Sad day for anyone hunting big game in SD.
 
TimeOnTarget said:
Sad day for anyone hunting big game in SD.
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Yep, it must be nice to be a part of the generation that not only got into the point games when they began, but also is able to change the rules to make sure they have the best odds at drawing "their" tag. To heck with the younger generations. The sad part is, like any entitlement, once it's given it's almost impossible to take back.
 
Keeptrying said:
Cubing points changes draw odds dramatically.

As an example let's say you have 3 points and I have 15. In the way the draw used to work for every point you had in the draw I had 5. Fair enough. Now let's cube the points. Your 3 points now turns into 27. Great! More chances. My 15 points turns into 3375 points. Now, for every point you have in the draw I have 125 points.

Massive difference. And one that will take decades to sort out if ever. The problem with elk in South Dakota, and this is my primary complaint with this change, is that in the best units we have less than 200 tags being given with thousands of people applying. It going to take forever for those high point holders to work out of this system. In the meantime, new hunters will be completely shut out.

They didn't address any of my concerns in a meaningful way including what this does to revenue. Once people understand what this means are they really going to buy a point for something they have an almost zero chance of drawing? On the flip side, SDGFP isn't doing anything to explain to people what this change means, or even that it has happened, so honestly, maybe nothing will change. In my opinion very few people know how our draw works, even the state employees whose job it is to know these things.

Cow tags and move on is my plan.
Click to expand...

That's not what he was asking.

In a true preference point system, the person with the most points gets the tag. Hence, it would make no sense to cube the points when the top point holder is already getting the tag. SD calls them preference points but it's actually a bonus point system, not preference.
 
NoWiser said:
Yep, it must be nice to be a part of the generation that not only got into the point games when they began, but also is able to change the rules to make sure they have the best odds at drawing "their" tag. To heck with the younger generations. The sad part is, like any entitlement, once it's given it's almost impossible to take back.
Click to expand...

Oh well. Move on.

I feel sorry for the people that think they need to get in on the ground floor and have max points to have a good hunt. I'd rather go on 5 hunts in a 5 point unit than 1 hunt in a 25 point unit.
 
Flatrock said:
Oh well. Move on.

I feel sorry for the people that think they need to get in on the ground floor and have max points to have a good hunt. I'd rather go on 5 hunts in a 5 point unit than 1 hunt in a 25 point unit.
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What? That's not how elk work in South Dakota. It's a lottery. A lottery which is now massively skewed to those with double digits points. The number of people who have double digits points crowd out the newcomers. It's not a matter of wanting to hunt a 25 point unit, it's a matter of not being able to hunt at all.
 
Flatrock said:
Oh well. Move on.

I feel sorry for the people that think they need to get in on the ground floor and have max points to have a good hunt. I'd rather go on 5 hunts in a 5 point unit than 1 hunt in a 25 point unit.
Click to expand...

I agree with you, and I only build points with plans to burn them ASAP, but I don't think there are "5 point units" in South Dakota. I think any bull elk hunt is very tough to draw (someone can correct me if I'm wrong) which is why this is tough to watch. It's not just making it nearly impossible for a young hunter to draw a premium tag, it's making it tough to draw ANY tag.

Check out the popular bowhunting site for the story on a young girl from South Dakota and her elk hunt. This change all but eliminated stories like that from happening in the future.
 
Just got off the phone with customer service. New rule applies to all drawings starting with elk and going forward. CSP Bison falls into that category for anyone else who was wondering.
 
Labman said:
Just got off the phone with customer service. New rule applies to all drawings starting with elk and going forward. CSP Bison falls into that category for anyone else who was wondering.
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Just took this from their web site:

"Following a presentation by South Dakota Game, Fish and Parks (GFP) this past December, the GFP Commission requested public input on a proposal to cube preference points for all 36 limited draw seasons; in which preference points can be purchased and accrued. After receiving over 400 public comments, the GFP Commission approved the proposal at their January meeting.

Purpose
To increase the drawing odds of applicants who have more years of accumulated preference points, while still allowing applicants with fewer preference points a chance to draw a limited license.

The drawing will run the exact same way as before. The GFP Licensing Office will still have the same breakdown of preference point pools for every season, however, now GFP will cube the number of times a person’s name is in the draw before the draw is run.

While this will improve the odds for people with more years of preference points drawing a license, it will not guarantee them one. This does not change the drawing to a true top down preference point system. A hunter with the most preference points will still not be guaranteed a license before another hunter with less preference points, but the odds of drawing a license will be increased.

The cubing of preference points also does not affect the price of preference points or the number of preference points a hunter can acquire in any given year. Only one point can be purchased each year for each season, if you did not receive a first choice license in the first draw.

The cubed preference point system will not be applied to special buck, Francis Case paddlefish snagging or spring turkey drawings until 2019. It will first be applied to the 2018 elk and Gavin's Point paddlefish snagging drawings and then used for all limited draw seasons - there are 36 total. "
 
NoWiser said:
I agree with you, and I only build points with plans to burn them ASAP, but I don't think there are "5 point units" in South Dakota. I think any bull elk hunt is very tough to draw (someone can correct me if I'm wrong) which is why this is tough to watch. It's not just making it nearly impossible for a young hunter to draw a premium tag, it's making it tough to draw ANY tag.

Check out the popular bowhunting site for the story on a young girl from South Dakota and her elk hunt. This change all but eliminated stories like that from happening in the future.
Click to expand...

Keeptrying said:
What? That's not how elk work in South Dakota. It's a lottery. A lottery which is now massively skewed to those with double digits points. The number of people who have double digits points crowd out the newcomers. It's not a matter of wanting to hunt a 25 point unit, it's a matter of not being able to hunt at all.
Click to expand...

I got a little sidetracked and was more just talking in general about other states and not specifically about SD. In regards to SD, yes you two are correct.

I don't like cubing points for the hard to draw tags. Mostly turns it into a straight preference point system.
 
I gotcha Flatrock. My biggest problem with this is the elk draw has this incredible number of people in the system already and a very small amount of tags issued each year. Massive disincentive for new people to get involved, and a point that was completely avoided by SDGFP when discussing this.
 
North Dakota squares points until you have over four and then they are cubed so a similar system. It works okay for deer hunts with reasonable draw odds. There are people with ten or more points, but they are rare and typically result from applying with individuals with less points (ND takes the lowest of a party) or very poor luck. It can be more challenging for muzzleloader and antelope tags which are more in demand. Our Big 3 once in a lifetime tags (elk, moose, sheep) are run on a straight draw. It comes up often with individuals wanting a draw system, but the game and fish always lays out the issue of points for draws when there are not enough tags for applicants to draw even once in their lifetime. Which is the case for some of the draws in SD.
 
Sitting on 14 here for WRD, 10 for antelope, 6 CSP Trophy Bison.
 
Not necessarily, points were cheap and since the draw is in July every year I have always had plans that would have interfered with SD so I just have always bought points. I guess they are like a bitcoin investment now.
 
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