MT FWP Tentative Season setting meetings

mtmuley said:

Didn't see a season in the tentatives. mtmuley

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Rinella mentioned on his podcast with Thomas McIntyre that he would not be putting in for a grizzly tag in the lower 48 and that never made sense to me compared to the other things he hunts and the conservation success story that grizzly hunting would be. Can anyone help explain why he might feel that way to not want to put in for it?

"Can anyone help explain why he might feel that way to not want to put in for it"?

I have no idea about Rinella's stance on anything.
But if he has no interest in applying for a grizzly bear tag, he probably doesn't need another man to vouch for his reasons.
I have no interest in ever shooting a bear of any sort, have my own reasons, don't care if anyone else knows 'em. Conversely, have nothing against those who hunt bears and no interest in their reasons for doing so.
But not being a celebrity, nobody cares about my (or any other regular schmoe's) stance. Why should Rinella's stance on issues be of interest over anyone else's?

I talked to a biologist today and asked about the grizzly hunt. He said he thought it would be a couple years at the earliest due to litigation.

onpoint said:

"Can anyone help explain why he might feel that way to not want to put in for it"?

I have no idea about Rinella's stance on anything.
But if he has no interest in applying for a grizzly bear tag, he probably doesn't need another man to vouch for his reasons.
I have no interest in ever shooting a bear of any sort, have my own reasons, don't care if anyone else knows 'em. Conversely, have nothing against those who hunt bears and no interest in their reasons for doing so.
But not being a celebrity, nobody cares about my (or any other regular schmoe's) stance. Why should Rinella's stance on issues be of interest over anyone else's?

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First let me thank you for starting your post with the least helpful sentence you could possibly respond to my post with. It did give me a laugh, but sorry it rubbed you in such a negative way. Of all my posts, I am surprised that this one got that response. And I am surprised that you have such an interest in my interest in his reasons for not wanting to hunt grizzly in the lower 48, seems to go against your post.

His opinion or stance on things is not more important to me than any other in all cases. In certain cases, his stance is more important because he has an audience so if he is broadcasting an idea or viewpoint that I strongly disagree with then I hope to have a method to disagree and discuss or not support him. In other cases, I could care less about his stance because he is not a perfect human being and is flawed just like the rest of us. But since he, and Randy, are voices to the public land hunter and conservationist, it is probably worth knowing what there stance is on things to make sure you can support them or not when justified.

Now back to the question, sorry, it just seems odd to me that a guy like steve would not put in for that tag. Seems no different than Fin putting in for the Montana bison tag to showcase what the status of bison conservation is or isn't. Perhaps he has a valid reason for not wanting to put in for a grizzly tag and I am curious what that reason is, because maybe I would share that reason as well once I found out about it. Or perhaps, we should be urging him to put in for it as it represents exactly what he is promoting. Just my curiosity is all. Are you interested in putting in for a lower 48 grizzly tag?

Ask him on Facebook. I'm sure he would articulate why he has no desire to hunt griz in the lower 48.

I have no plans to ever put in for a griz permit. I also have no plans to ever go on a sheep hunt. At this point in my life, neither interest me albeit for different reasons.

JLS said:

Ask him on Facebook. I'm sure he would articulate why he has no desire to hunt griz in the lower 48.

I have no plans to ever put in for a griz permit. I also have no plans to ever go on a sheep hunt. At this point in my life, neither interest me albeit for different reasons.

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Thank you for your response. I am curious what your reasons for not wanting to put in for either are?

Bambistew said:

Third post, first link

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Thanks. I overlooked that link.


What is everyone's thoughts on lengthening youth deer season from two to four days on some years? I'm all for youth participation but not sure I see the need for nearly a week of extra rifle pressure on deer.

Gerald Martin said:

What is everyone's thoughts on lengthening youth deer season from two to four days on some years? I'm all for youth participation but not sure I see the need for nearly a week of extra rifle pressure on deer.

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That's about the only thing that's changed in Montana since I left there in 2000, an additional day for everyone with a Saturday opener and 2 day jump for youth...why not just fill in the last couple days the animals aren't being pressured and make the youth hunt start the day after archery closes...that's being serious. People wont stop until a 365 day season is adopted. Already hunt elk for 6 months, whats another week for deer?

All I know is the MTFWP is NOT going to like my comments on the 4th...I'm laying it out there.

Gerald Martin said:

Thanks. I overlooked that link.


What is everyone's thoughts on lengthening youth deer season from two to four days on some years? I'm all for youth participation but not sure I see the need for nearly a week of extra rifle pressure on deer.

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I'm a no vote on the extended youth deer. mtmuley

Region wide OTC unlimited elk B’s private land only.

Guess this is the R2 version of shoulder seasons.

Add Regional 002-00 OTC Elk B-license: HDs 201, 204, 210, 211, 212, 213, 215, 216, 217, 260, 261, 262, 270, 281, 283, 285, 290, 291, 292, 293, 298. Must purchase starting Aug 7 and before the start of the general season. Only valid on private lands excluding Weyerhaeuser, Stimson, & Nature Conservancy lands. Valid in all Region 2 HDs except HDs 200, 202, 203, 214, 240, 250, 280, 282 & 284 as in the table below:

375H&H said:

Now back to the question, sorry, it just seems odd to me that a guy like steve would not put in for that tag. Seems no different than Fin putting in for the Montana bison tag to showcase what the status of bison conservation is or isn't. Perhaps he has a valid reason for not wanting to put in for a grizzly tag and I am curious what that reason is, because maybe I would share that reason as well once I found out about it. Or perhaps, we should be urging him to put in for it as it represents exactly what he is promoting. Just my curiosity is all. Are you interested in putting in for a lower 48 grizzly tag?

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I can't speak for Steve, but I've said the same thing. I won't be applying for a grizzly tag, even though I spent three years on the Governors' Grizzly Bear Roundtable advocating that hunting of grizzly bears be an expected management tool under state management guidelines.

A few reasons why I won't be applying.

>- I shot a grizzly bear in Alaska when my grandpa was alive and he was able to be my "next of kin guide." Personally, shooting another one really doesn't get me that fired up, though I think it would be a ton of fun to pursue them.

>- I think the tags should go to people who have a real passion for the idea of a Montana grizzly hunt. I know guys far more fired up about it than I would be and I would prefer they get the tags. It is for that reason that I have advocated for some higher thresholds of what it takes to apply and how the hunts should unfold, rather than someone who doesn't have a lot of passion for the idea.

>- It seems the states are inclined to bow to the pressure that will make these grizzly bear tags more of a shoot than a hunt, if/when tags are finally issued. Making these hunts easy, where some bear that is named/numbered and graced the cover of magazines gets toasted in front of an audience near a road or viewing area, is going to be some serious PR problem for the states when they could have made these more of a backcountry hunt and away from the public eye. I don't want any part of that.

>- This is probably the biggest reason I won't apply. The profile that comes with my platforms also brings with it a lot of focus on things I might say or do. These platforms can be very useful in the debate on public lands and public access. Me shooting a Montana grizzly would do nothing but muddy those waters and create more hurdles for our public land advocacy in places/arenas where most people don't have a clue of the grizzly bear conservation story. Reality is, that distraction would make it harder to do public land advocacy. Given my high interest in continuing to use our platforms for public land issues and my lower interest in shooting a Montana grizzly, I don't want to get distracted and pulled into the ditch in a way that reduces our effectiveness in other issues I have spent years working on.

Not sure if any of that makes sense, but that is where it is for me.

tjones said:

Region wide OTC unlimited elk B’s private land only.

Guess this is the R2 version of shoulder seasons.

Add Regional 002-00 OTC Elk B-license: HDs 201, 204, 210, 211, 212, 213, 215, 216, 217, 260, 261, 262, 270, 281, 283, 285, 290, 291, 292, 293, 298. Must purchase starting Aug 7 and before the start of the general season. Only valid on private lands excluding Weyerhaeuser, Stimson, & Nature Conservancy lands. Valid in all Region 2 HDs except HDs 200, 202, 203, 214, 240, 250, 280, 282 & 284 as in the table below:

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Elk are at objective in the unit I used to hunt elk in, when I used to buy a tag, when I didn't feel guilty that I was shooting the last bull in the unit...but we need OTC elk b-licenses. Truly unbelievable.

Just more awesome Montana elk management...whack and stack.

Why does a conservation success story have to involve killing something? Hunting is a result of the success, not a component of it.

Gerald Martin said:

What is everyone's thoughts on lengthening youth deer season from two to four days on some years? I'm all for youth participation but not sure I see the need for nearly a week of extra rifle pressure on deer.

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I'd be happy with a two day window to eventually take my boys hunting. Four seems a bit much.

Fact: you could kill EVERY elk that steps foot into public or accessible private land for an entire hunting season and some districts would still be ‘over objective’ Due to large tracts of inaccessible land and by FWP’s own admission - objectives that are set based on “landowner tolerance”
I can think of 3 specific ranches just off the top of my head in 3 separate districts that singlehandedly hold more elk than FWP says the objective is for the whole district in which they reside.


I find it troubling we manage elk by anything other than the carrying capacity of their habitat.

Big Fin said:

>- This is probably the biggest reason I won't apply. The profile that comes with my platforms also brings with it a lot of focus on things I might say or do. These platforms can be very useful in the debate on public lands and public access. Me shooting a Montana grizzly would do nothing but muddy those waters and create more hurdles for our public land advocacy in places/arenas where most people don't have a clue of the grizzly bear conservation story. Reality is, that distraction would make it harder to do public land advocacy. Given my high interest in continuing to use our platforms for public land issues and my lower interest in shooting a Montana grizzly, I don't want to get distracted and pulled into the ditch in a way that reduces our effectiveness in other issues I have spent years working on.

Not sure if any of that makes sense, but that is where it is for me.

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One of the things I admire about your approach, Randy, is the thoughtful consideration of your platform’s message and your consistent commitment to that message. You need to be commended for staying true to that message even when it limits (or simply complicates) your hunting success and opportunity. Keep up the good work, sir.

MTGomer said:

I find it troubling we manage elk by anything other than the carrying capacity of their habitat.

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What about wolves?

mdunc8 said:

What about wolves?

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What about them? We aren’t killing wolves in MT like we try to do to elk
Nor could we, due to the nature of hunting wolves.

His opinion or stance on things is not more important to me than any other in all cases. In certain cases, his stance is more important.............???????????

375H&H, I guess both of us aren't quite sure what each other means, it's all good for a laugh I guess.....

MTGomer said:

What about them?

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You're advocating to "manage elk by...carrying capacity of their habitat." Are you also advocating we do the same for wolves?