Trump sounding very much like Old Man Bundy these days... Are any of you suprised?

Concerning the Presidents recent move to de-monument Bears Ears. While I can see the point of those on here who feel that as of right now there is no damage to hunters or hunter access, because the land is still in Federal management and can be managed through Multiple Use, based on the statement issued by our President I question as to weather he even comprehends what his actions are. That is a greater fear to me. He stated:

"Some people think that the natural resources of Utah should be controlled by a small handful of very distant bureaucrats located in Washington,” the president said. “And guess what? They’re wrong."

Does the utter stupidity of this statement sound familiar?

This statement seems to suggest that Trump believes his action has resulted in the land going back to the states, even though that couldn't be further from the truth. Its a very BUNDY like statement to make, and likely echoes his real beliefs and ignorance of governance in general.

One of the great things in this country, is we get to vote for the folks that we see as most fit for the role. I didn't begrudge anyone for voting for Trump, but expect all Trump-voting Hunters to "lie in the bed they made" when it comes time to be agree or be called out on their chosen Presidents ignorance and utter inability to lead. The rest of us have to sleep in that soup-sandwich of a bed too, unfortunately.

Especially saddening to me are those (albeit few) individuals with a strong hunting media presence, who rather than simply having kept their mouth shut and voted for themselves alone, actually went out of their way to not only promote Trump but to go so far to declare he "Could be the next Teddy Roosevel" as one VERY popular hunting podcast host told me. What exactly were these aspirations based off of when taking into account the history of the man as we know it?

What a crock of bull. It reminds me of the line from the classic film The Outlaw Josie Whales

Trump is about as dense as the Bundy bunch.

dannyb278 said:

Concerning the Presidents recent move to de-monument Bears Ears. While I can see the point of those on here who feel that as of right now there is no damage to hunters or hunter access, because the land is still in Federal management and can be managed through Multiple Use, based on the statement issued by our President I question as to weather he even comprehends what his actions are. That is a greater fear to me. He stated:

"Some people think that the natural resources of Utah should be controlled by a small handful of very distant bureaucrats located in Washington,” the president said. “And guess what? They’re wrong."

Does the utter stupidity of this statement sound familiar?

This statement seems to suggest that Trump believes his action has resulted in the land going back to the states, even though that couldn't be further from the truth. Its a very BUNDY like statement to make, and likely echoes his real beliefs and ignorance of governance in general.

One of the great things in this country, is we get to vote for the folks that we see as most fit for the role. I didn't begrudge anyone for voting for Trump, but expect all Trump-voting Hunters to "lie in the bed they made" when it comes time to be agree or be called out on their chosen Presidents ignorance and utter inability to lead. The rest of us have to sleep in that soup-sandwich of a bed too, unfortunately.

Especially saddening to me are those (albeit few) individuals with a strong hunting media presence, who rather than simply having kept their mouth shut and voted for themselves alone, actually went out of their way to not only promote Trump but to go so far to declare he "Could be the next Teddy Roosevel" as one VERY popular hunting podcast host told me. What exactly were these aspirations based off of when taking into account the history of the man as we know it?

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Funny you bring this up, in particular the highlighted part.

I actually killed a bull elk in AZ the day that Trump made the announcement about reducing the monuments and his trip to SLC, heard it on NPR on my way in.

Spent the next day packing that bull out of a nasty piece of real-estate solo. While doing things like that I have plenty of time to think about things.

I came to the conclusion that Trumps actions should really not surprise anyone, and anyone that believed Trump would behave differently had given it no thought. All you have to do is think about how Trump is simply a product of his environment. He was born and raised in a concrete jungle and has spent his life, effort, and money developing everything he could. Perfect example is his golf course in Ireland. He made the claim that he can take a pristine piece of coastline and "make it better by building a golf course on it".

I'm sure in his mind, he actually believes that, I really do. But, I've yet to see any "pristine area" that is "developed" to the level of 5 star hotel, golf course and condo's as making it better.

Why is that? Because myself, and many sportsmen, are also a product of their environments. I spent my time hunting, fishing, trapping, hiking, etc. etc. and my vision is to leave it as it is for future generations to enjoy. I look at a place like where I hunted elk in AZ the last 10 days and I don't see golf courses, condo's, and 5 star hotels making it better. Its perfect the way it is, and thankfully, where I killed my bull is also Wilderness, so its very unlikely guys with Trumps mentality will realize their vision of a "perfect" place.

I don't think its fair, or even right, to expect anything from Trump in regard to having any kind of conservation ethic. I know some argued that Jr. may be the voice of reason in regard to conservation, wildlife, land ethics, etc. Really? When was the last time Trump listened to anybody other than those that stroke his ego?

It makes total sense that Utah and Trump would align on what their vision is for that State and our public lands there...develop, pave, build condo's, golf courses and the like.

To gain appreciation for public lands and wild places, you cant be a distant observer with an eye to develop it all...you have to do things like pack bulls out of tough country to really value these types of places. Trump never has done so, and never will...and thusly, we cant expect him to behave any differently with his decisions.

But, in the end, the world does not revolve around Trumps visions of public lands...326 million co-owners have a say too.

To be sure, Trump is the polar opposite of TR...exactly what I would expect.

Well said Buzz. One of the side benefits of having to pack out an animal is all that time for contemplation on the way..... As for Trump, a man who thinks that exercise should be minimized because it uses up some kind of predefined amount of energy for your day really wouldn't see the benefit to walking into a wilderness with a very high likelihood of walking out without a guaranteed result

If I may request, could you please educate us all and provide some hard numbers on all the acreage Trump has removed from Federal ownership and proclaimed it property of the State?

I understand this is an emotional issue for some, but sticking to the facts might be important, so let's see attempt to do so.

Also the irony of this situation reminds me of all the crap that took place for 8yrs prior to this administration. The hard sells(greater good, keep your doc, etc), the "it will never happen", and the "stop being a kook" talk seem to be coming home to roost in the minds of the very folks that proclaimed such phrases.

Which reminds me of a Ray Wylie Hubbard quote "the funny thing about irony, is not everybody gets it"

JWP58 said:

If I may request, could you please educate us all and provide some hard numbers on all the acreage Trump has removed from Federal ownership and proclaimed it property of the State?

I understand this is an emotional issue for some, but sticking to the facts might be important, so let's see attempt to do so.

Also the irony of this situation reminds me of all the crap that took place for 8yrs prior to this administration. The hard sells(greater good, keep your doc, etc), the "it will never happen", and the "stop being a kook" talk seem to be coming home to roost in the minds of the very folks that proclaimed such phrases.

Which reminds me of a Ray Wylie Hubbard quote "the funny thing about irony, is not everybody gets it"

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Sticking to facts, then a babbling post about greater good and keep your doc?

No small amount of irony in that post...good grief.

Not trying to hijack, but its too bad that Cliven, Ryan, and Ammon have tarnished what used to be a good 'ol American name.




Carry on...

IMHO we'll survive the Trump term, but would any of you liked to have Hitlery in there right now instead?

BuzzH said:

Sticking to facts, then a babbling post about greater good and keep your doc?

No small amount of irony in that post...good grief.

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So you have no data? Or does the data not support your fears?

I'll wait with bated breath to be educated by your all knowing genius.

JWP58 said:

So you have no data? Or does the data not support your fears?

I'll wait with bated breath to be educated by your all knowing genius.

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I think you need to get a grip...you're losing it, big-time.

I also think you need to slow down and READ what was written on this post.

If you want to ask your questions and ask for "data", on the totally unrelated issues you want to drag into these discussions...start your own thread.

Nobody said a word about States getting Federal lands with this latest move by the Trump Administration, and in fact, if you are able to comprehend the written English language, you would have seen this, stated by the OP:

"This statement seems to suggest that Trump believes his action has resulted in the land going back to the states, even though that couldn't be further from the truth. Its a very BUNDY like statement to make, and likely echoes his real beliefs and ignorance of governance in general."

Either you missed it, or you lack comprehension...either way, stay on topic.

So you're saying he hasn't transferred any Federally owned land to any State? Thanks, you could just say that instead of rambling on...

As folks were told in the Obama years, calm down...take the tin foil off. Nothing has happened yet, have some faith....for the greater good and all.

JWP58 said:

So you're saying he hasn't transferred any Federally owned land to any State? Thanks, you could just say that instead of rambling on...

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Show me where I've ever made the claim that this action has transferred any Federally owned land to any State, in this thread or any other...I'll save you the trouble, I never have.

For the most obvious, of all obvious reasons, that I understand public land policy, have a degree with an emphasis in resource policy, and have worked the last 31 years in the same. I've forgotten more about policy than you'll ever know.

Be mindful of who you ask your questions to with your accusatory tone, you make yourself look foolish.

BuzzH said:

Show me where I've ever made the claim that this action has transferred any Federally owned land to any State, in this thread or any other...I'll save you the trouble, I never have.

For the most obvious, of all obvious reasons, that I understand public land policy, have a degree with an emphasis in resource policy, and have worked the last 31 years in the same. I've forgotten more about policy than you'll ever know.

Be mindful of who you ask your questions to with your accusatory tone, you make yourself look foolish.

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You're losing it....i never accused you of making any claims. I simply asked if Trump had transferred any ownership rights.

Is asking questions bad? I assumed you'd be the best person to ask, since you know everything.

I did not mean to trigger you, please accept my deepest apologies.

JWP58 said:

Is asking questions bad?

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Dumb ones that you already know the answer to, just to derail a good thread...YES.

BuzzH said:

Dumb ones that you already know the answer to, just to derail a good thread...YES.

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Hey when you have access to the most knowledgeable person in the world, you'd be remiss to not ask.

With that in mind, how do we achieve world peace? Why does communism always fail? Do you prefer a bowline or a bowline on a bight?

We are all dying to know the secrets of the universe as well....

For those that asked about the transfer of Federal NM land to the State of Utah, I believe the following state link will be of interest.

https://trustlands.utah.gov/sitla-board-meets-to-discuss-trust-lands-within-new-monument/

As far as I can tell at this time, the final compensation for the 109,000+ acres was not completed to date. Therefore, I would suspect (no proof in my searching as of yet) any portion of the lands impacted by the administrations actions would revert back to their original management agency - in this case the state school land trust. So technically, the administrations actions can result in a transfer of federal lands to state lands. Furthermore, the charter of the state land agency in question can make these lands available for sale to private parties.

If anyone has further clarification and links, I would be very interested.