Great Article From From Boone and Crockett

That is a good article contrasting conservation from preservation and provides some good suggestions for improved forest management.

However, the assertion that it's the wildfires significantly contributing to climate change and drought, rather than the converse, seems to contradict the science widely explained after this year's fires. Citing sixty million acres of forest at risk also begs the question bantered back and forth by you and others of us. The question: Is it practical, viable, even possible to consider thinning and controlled burns on a massive scale to affect sixty million acres, many of which are inaccessible?
Even if viable, then what are the ensuing challenges and costs to "maintain" the improved health?
 
Is there anything that we can't blame on climate change? It seems almost everything according to "a scientific study" should be blamed on man and climate change.

Yes, it is viable to thin and control burn 60 million acres, it will take time, maybe 100 years to effectively reach all corners. But, it took 100 years for the fuel load to reach catastrophic levels like it did this year. Aside from that, we need to accept that wilderness and roadless areas will eventually burn and we should be ok with that as it is a natural process. Lastly, we usually make money on thinning while fighting fires is a massive money pit.
 
The article does not claim that the fires are causing climate change. It points out that the fires release a lot of carbon, and if carbon in our atmosphere is the cause of climate change, then these fires are compounding the problem. Get involved S A and you might learn what we can feasibly do to start making some differences here. We didn't get here over night, and we won't solve it over night.

Digging in your heels and refusing to listen to anyone other than the George Wuerthner types will do us no good. You do seem to be coming around a little, so I take as a positive sign.
 
It seems almost everything according to "a scientific study" should be blamed on man and climate change.
The science does not necessarily put man and climate change in the same sentence. Climate change is widely accepted as a cyclical phenomenon of nature. Although presently we see a contentious debate about man's possible influence on climate change, the drought would be happening with or without man's influence, as it has long before the industrial revolution.

Lastly, we usually make money on thinning while fighting fires is a massive money pit.
"Usually" being the key modifier, as it depends largely on who pays for the new roads.
 
Digging in your heels and refusing to listen to anyone other than the George Wuerthner types will do us no good.
Who is George Wuerthner? I have no idea.

You do seem to be coming around a little, so I take as a positive sign.
No, I'm too old and ornery to change. You just seem to glean on to any innuendo to which you may delight in attempting to refute or argue for sake of contention. Most of our points of disagreement stem from my poor use of semantics or your skewed logic ... but believe it or not, we are mostly on the same page, BHR.
 
Thanks for the link. Wuerthner's opinions are not that radical, nor ill-founded. 'Seems to be saying that you can't log your way out of drought driven large scale wildfire seasons. No one has presented evidence to the contrary. Although I support your contention that increased and improved forest management is needed and will mitigate the risks and the effects of wildfires in certain areas, it does not logically follow that Wuerthner's assertions are invalid.

He also criticizes politicians who are basing their positions on pressures from those who would stand to profit financially from logging. My main point is that more balance regarding practicality and fiscal considerations is needed in addressing the issues ... not just supporting either the greed influence of the timber industry or the pie-in-the-sky influence of the "preservationists".
 
Climate change is widely accepted as a cyclical phenomenon of nature. Although presently we see a contentious debate about man's possible influence on climate change, the drought would be happening with or without man's influence, as it has long before the industrial revolution.

I think this is the most underreported and least understood element in the entire debate. Those who "oppose climate change" usually oppose the idea that it is man-caused, and therefore reversible or static. What they contend is that there are cycles that the earth goes through and so we must do what we can to mitigate (if at all possible) effects.


AS to the OP: The distinction between conservation and preservation is again not widley understood. I have used the example that we currently conserve Yellowstone National Park: It is used wisely and protected. If we were to preserve the park, we would close the gates and remove all manmade structures. This is the difference between what Muir advocated (preservation) and what TR/Grinnell (Conservation) wanted to see happen. There are small anecdotes as you read conservation history about how Muir and TR differed, at one point Muir asking TR when he will grow up and stop killing (hunting) animals.
 
Feel free to argue against the science, but the science very clearly indicates something to contrary.
From my very limited perspective, I believe that man has had significant influence on recent climate change. I will not argue that science at all. And I believe man has the capability to reduce man's influence on climate. But it is difficult to believe the absence of cyclical climate change before man or, particularly before the industrial revolution.

Note: For full disclosure, I have previously read some of Wuerthner's stuff. But it did not grab me to the point of name recognition.

How about some successful hunting pics from this season ....
Good point, Tony. I wish Paul would oblige and I could oblige. When the mountain was dry there were eight nice bulls within a hundred yards just staring at me, some broadside, from across the fence where I no go. Then mucho snow through which I snowshoed most of yesterday, cutting only one old track. 'Was tempted to fire the 7 mag at the lone grouse, but didn't. Anyhow, this is crunch week in more than one way.
 
From my very limited perspective, I believe that man has had significant influence on recent climate change. I will not argue that science at all. And I believe man has the capability to reduce man's influence on climate. But it is difficult to believe the absence of cyclical climate change before man or, particularly before the industrial revolution.

If you have a limited perspective, it's probably not best to quote what the science does or doesn't say... Regardless, you're allowed to believe both. The science actually encourages you to do so.
 
Any links to this "settled" science. Prefer it not be presented in cartoon form. Computer generated climate models are ok if they can provided supporting data. Thanks.
 
How about some successful hunting pics from this season Paul? This nonsense of you looking for an argument over forest management gets old.

Really.
Instead of calling you 4th grade names, complaining about your politics, and and generally sounding like a &%$#@$%% - a simple question.......

BHR - jagetchyerelk?.......................
 
Fun fact. What is the number 1 greenhouse gas on the planet earth? No Google search for the answer either.;)
Off the top of my head, learned from a course in electricity generation, I believe it is water vapor. Of course it balances itself out rapidly, unlike CO2, so bringing it up is just confusing the subject.

While I am here I have a request from you, leave me the f*ck out of your accusations on where people get info. What little I have read of George (over the last 20 years) I found obnoxious, confrontational and one sided. I don't even read his stuff (or Keohler) anymore. It is looking like I have to put your style in the same category and am getting tired of it so I am going to try the ignore function... forgive me if it doesn't work - you're the first person I've tried it on in 25 years of bulletin boards. Guess I'm getting old.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
111,048
Messages
1,944,961
Members
34,990
Latest member
hotdeals
Back
Top