Zinke to change Interior Department flag
- Thread starter mfb99
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JWP58
Banned
Trolling hard, the virtue signal is coming in loud and clear. P.s. do you use gasoline, hypicrit?
Straight Arrow
Well-known member
A trite, simplistic question but yet worthy of discussion.
Rhetorical question: If drilling sources were identified, would one still be a "hypicrit" (sic) if they usually fueled their pickup with gasoline produced from offshore drilling yet refused to purchase fuel produced by fracking in the Bears Ears National Monument?
rammac
Member
Oh look, more progressive liberal whining. Victim-hood and drama, the two things you people love.
LopeHunter
Well-known member
I don't get the criticism of Zinke. Is it the general "Republicans are greedy corporate puppets" mantra which is great headlines for the left but "the sky is falling" gets hollow after screaming it at the sky that never falls. Has Yellowstone been sold yet? Any public land controlled by interior closed off to the public? I see Utah is selling some state land but that was not Interior. The pendulum overswinging to left with lots of new regulations then back to the right where regulations partially rolled back and back and forth. Mostly, nothing substantial changes but the picture on the wall of the various Federal bureaucracies. Try yoga. Breathing exercises. Cut back on the salt. A lot of good things out there to enjoy without blowing a gasket on something that either has no functional solution or is not being proposed during the criticism.
This “progressive whiner” also loves busting his ass hauling a heavy pack loaded with mule deer quarters and antlers from deep in the backcountry. Never asked for help, never wanted any help, didn’t need any help.
BigHornRam
Well-known member
Criticism is based on fear IMO. Zinke is going on the offensive, going directly after the Montana Democrats bread and butter, and it has them twisted in knots. Pandering is working for Zinke. Want proof, read this NPR article.
https://www.npr.org/2017/11/26/564918337/montana-monument-may-expand-under-trump-administration
BigHornRam
Well-known member
Full disclosure, Koch Industries as shown as a sponsor of Zinke's new flag in the O P, is also a sponsor of NPR.
The actual spelling is hypocrite.
No I am not ashamed of my college education, actually two college degrees.
Do I use gasoline, no my car has sails on it....
Really, I drive an SUV 4x4, but I did make the decision to get one that got good mileage. Do you get it?
It is called moving in the right direction. LESS FOSSIL FUEL
Some folks are just so hung up on "Liberal" they can't think their way out of a paper bag. They would rather hand the keys to the Koch Brothers to strip mine all of Montana than have an evil Liberal talk sense to them. Go figure.
Now I am really going to twist your ridged mind. My living (job and company) depends on fossil fuels and on mining. Yep it is true, but I understand the difference between using fossil fuels responsibly/mining responsibly and NOT.
A ridged mind, (Yours) does not get it, or does not want to get it. You only are comfortable with spoon fed "news" from morning shows.
I am an engineer. I have spent a lifetime making decisions using data and facts. Engineers that don't and instead use magical thinking don't get paid.
I do the same thinking with Public Land policy.
Luckily, most of the members of this Forum are too smart to fall for the Koch Brothers drivel. They won't carry water for them and hopefully they will vote to protect Public Lands in the next election.
Just in case your head is not spinning completely, NO I AM NOT A DEMOCRAT..............and yes I think Zinke is a lackey for the extraction industry.
Cheers,
Mark
Ye Shall Be Free to Roam
No I am not ashamed of my college education, actually two college degrees.
Do I use gasoline, no my car has sails on it....
Really, I drive an SUV 4x4, but I did make the decision to get one that got good mileage. Do you get it?
It is called moving in the right direction. LESS FOSSIL FUEL
Some folks are just so hung up on "Liberal" they can't think their way out of a paper bag. They would rather hand the keys to the Koch Brothers to strip mine all of Montana than have an evil Liberal talk sense to them. Go figure.
Now I am really going to twist your ridged mind. My living (job and company) depends on fossil fuels and on mining. Yep it is true, but I understand the difference between using fossil fuels responsibly/mining responsibly and NOT.
A ridged mind, (Yours) does not get it, or does not want to get it. You only are comfortable with spoon fed "news" from morning shows.
I am an engineer. I have spent a lifetime making decisions using data and facts. Engineers that don't and instead use magical thinking don't get paid.
I do the same thinking with Public Land policy.
Luckily, most of the members of this Forum are too smart to fall for the Koch Brothers drivel. They won't carry water for them and hopefully they will vote to protect Public Lands in the next election.
Just in case your head is not spinning completely, NO I AM NOT A DEMOCRAT..............and yes I think Zinke is a lackey for the extraction industry.
Cheers,
Mark
Ye Shall Be Free to Roam
Might want to tone back on the spelling corrections if you going to accuse folks of having a "ridged mind"...
noharleyyet
Well-known member
..one for each degree.; )
I don't agree on the oer-regulation rhetoric. That's the SOP of every changing administration, but the fact here is that we're outside of normal, and the response from this administration is very unhelpful when trying to keep coalitions of diverse groups together and working towards a common cause. It's also a false choice to hold up the sale of public land or parks (Congressional action is required to do so). Zinke has closed land off to recreating public by putting extractvie uses over recreational in all things DOI (Energy Dominance). I can remember when hunting the Wyoming Range herd was an every year, general tag option due to the outstanding winter range. That winter range now is gas pads. It has directly resulted in reduced hunting opportunity and an over 50% decline in the Wyoming Range herd, as per the scientists hired by the gas company that drilled the place. Under this new regime, we'll have more opportunities for that kind of development, resulting in fewer opportunities for public land hunters - i.e. - shutting the public out of public land. I've worked with the Bush II administration and the Obama administration. Both had career people who did outstanding work both at the DC level and the local level. This administration is actively working to alienate and eliminate those people.
I gave the administration a C- on picking Zinke. I've known what his true colors were for a while, having once worked with him during his time as a state legislator, then watching his hard right turn in an effort to get through primaries in a state where the crazier R you are, the better for the base that shows up to chose party leaders.
There is a lot of criticism about Zinke, much of it warranted. The hubris displayed by the man is certainly ripe for parody. His inability to understand the front of a stetson from the back would get you laughed out of just about any bar outside of the tourist mega-centers, making him a top candidate for mockery. His inability to hold himself accountable for ethical violations related to politicking while traveling on the taxpayer dime (which also cost Tom Price his cabinet post) shows that his ethical cmpass is about as well functioning as Jack Sparrow's in the Pirates movies.
But all of that is fluff. It's not the meat you are looking for. So here we go:
1.) He ended the resource advisory committees, claiming that they were essentially wasting taxpayer time & money without giving any real examples. He's long been a critic of the RAC process because it doesn't give him what he wanted as a congressman. Now, he's in a position to eliminate a good tool of public involvment, so he does it, then only reluctantly gives the people their voices back with no insight as to what his "investigation" brought up. This was timed with the monuments review and the review of the sage grouse plans. If those RAC's would have been left to operate, you would have seen a much livlier debate within the agency, and from the people who actively work on managing public lands.
2.) Monuments Review: I'll not ding him for enacting the review. That was the boss's command. What I will say is that the report that was leaked at the end of it was one of the most ignorant pieces of trash I've ever read in 15 years of doing this work. it was largely incomplete, missing significant data and got multiple facts totally wrong, and it was never fact checked by his own agency. It reads like a sophomore's book report written after reading the cliffs notes version of Macbeth. If you are tasked with doing a job, and you are at the Secretary's level, you should be able to put together a cogent report that can withstand even a basic google fact check. This memo goes to show a Secretary woefully unprepared to do his job, and lacking the key components to be effective in managing. Furthermore, the new monument he is suggesting ignores 20 years of work by the locals who live there and have been working out a compromise that is much better for some of the best wild country left in the lower 48. The tribe have said thanks, but no thanks. The anglos working on this have backed the tribe.
3.) Sage Grouse review: The states of Wyoming, Montana, Oregon, Washington, Nevada, Colorado and California were glad to avoid a listing of sage grouse and work with the fed to enact the 98 amendments to land use plans to better manage public land for habitat improvement and net conservation gain - i.e. - making more habitat for sage grouse and the 350 other species that depend on sage brush ecosystems. The plans weren't perfect, and a smart & knowledgeable manager would have used the new administration to enact small, targeted changes to the plans that could be done w/o triggering dramatic efforts to undue to hard work of multiple stake-holders over the last 10 or more years. The loudest critic of this approach has been Governor Matt Mead (R-WY). In a recent document that was made available through a freedom on information act request, the secretary is seen to be pre-decisional in this issue, as his staff is instructing him on messaging for the AG of NV (Someone who is actively suing him) to talk about how they want to scrap the plans in favor of more development and removing the net gain of conservation on public lands. This seems strange to me, to meet with a litigant w/o counsel present and to go around the Governor of Nevada to meet the AG, ignoring the chief executive for one of his chief political rivals.
4.) Appointments: Several key appointments to lead agencies have not been made. That has nothing to do with congress or Schumer's hold on a few people, but rather speaks to a DOI that is not operating at the level it should, and leaving most decisions up to the political appointees - former lobbyists, etc.
5.) Supporting a budget that does exactly the opposite of what he claims to stand for. By supporting the Trump budget, not only is the SOI speaking out of both sides of his mouth, it shows he has no idea what his agency does, or how it is funded. He ignored his past stances on LWCF and Parks. Luckily, congress is recommending much better levels of funding for LWCF.
6.) Style over substance. Zinke is the king at the Kubuki theater that is American politics. He plays a part like an actor does. It looks great until you actually look at the product. Take the initial SEO he signed. It sounds good, but effectively, it has little to do with the management of wildlife or the better management of public lands. Same goes with extending the Bush II expansion of hunting at wildlife refuges. He'll dangle these small baubles out front, while taking away bigger, more important tools for the management of wildlife. Are the baubles good? You bet. Were the other things lost more important and ultimately better for hunters and anglers? Unequivocally yes.
Hope that doesn't trigger any snowflakes.
RobG
Well-known member
It is a pretty small segment of the population that doesn't tire of this sort of inane logic. Just because you use gasoline doesn't mean you shouldn't demand responsible development of the resources. In fact, it is the consideration of all aspects of resource development with the goal of achieving a balance that allows us to have such good hunting and fishing. The truth is, a much stronger case can be made for the hypocrisy of supporting Zinke while being a hunter.
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JWP58
Banned
I don't support Zinke, but I also don't lose sleep on nightly basis because he is head of the interior. And ya, you got me on the spelling error, yippie to you. I'll proof read my forum posts thoroughly now.
All the Z's, Zim's, and D's, have their undies in a bunch since Obama left......get over it commies. In about 7yrs some other socialist nut like Pocahontas Warren will be in the Whitehouse and all will be well in liberal land. Hell by the the Clinton foundation might be up and slushing again.
And no, I don't get paid to "consult, advise, or bribe...i mean lobby" politic'in folk either.
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RobG
Well-known member
I don't lose sleep over Zinke either, but the administration is doing a lot of stuff that will hurt wildlife and hunting. That's a fact. If we don't point it out and put up a fight we will lose a lot. If we had remained quiet about PLT it would have been a done deal by now, but they know they will pay if they try something like that. That is what speaking out accomplishes. Overly simplifying it, saying we are hypocrites if we protest irresponsible extraction, doesn't help. There will have to be balance.
Admit it or not, the oil supply increased dramatically under Obama, driving oil and nat gas prices down to the point where coal is barely competitive. Loosening up rules will only cause us to deplete our resources sooner.
One time I tried to bust on a guy's typo and made a typo myself. I was rightfully roasted. Neever agin. As I get older my hands seems to type out of habit and not necessarily that same words that I'm thinking. This is the type of stuff you can expect as the climate changes.
Admit it or not, the oil supply increased dramatically under Obama, driving oil and nat gas prices down to the point where coal is barely competitive. Loosening up rules will only cause us to deplete our resources sooner.
One time I tried to bust on a guy's typo and made a typo myself. I was rightfully roasted. Neever agin. As I get older my hands seems to type out of habit and not necessarily that same words that I'm thinking. This is the type of stuff you can expect as the climate changes.
BigHornRam
Well-known member
The Koch Brothers lure got a little action from you Mark. Time to switch over to the Tom Steyer lure. I see Steyer has recently thrown in with this group of investors.
http://www.b-t.energy/landscape/
Sounds like this is right up your alley. Reading through it, it's mostly platitudes and pie in the sky, but truthfully I do hope some good solid solutions come from this collaboration of investment. And the guys involved do have a pile of cash to foolishly throw around hoping something sticks. I like that as well.
Your thoughts Mark?
BigHornRam
Well-known member
One more question for you Mark With Two Degrees. You mention that you favor gas and oil, and mining extraction done right. Can you give us some examples of companies that meet your standards? Thanks.
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