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  1. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by j_burkWI View Post
    Also maxx, what exactly is so "shitty" and "ass backwards" about Wisconsin's deer hunting culture? I am genuinely curious as to whether I'm naive to it or an active participant.
    I am from WI and I love the state go badgers hell of a weekend.

    If the state was to give every hunter 4 doe tags to shoot a majority of the WI hunters view that as a open book to kill every deer they see there is very little self control and the over harvest of deer has put the state in a situation that you just don't see many deer. Ya the gov says its ok but there is no self control via the hunters.

    Over 600k people get out in the woods and hunt the 9 day season. I am not sure the numbers but I would guess it is over 50% of them that don't think about hunting, touch a gun, or do anything to prepare for the season. Hell lot of my family is this way. (IE there is some of this going on in Iowa also but our total number of hunters is so much less so it is essentially less of a problem).

    A lot of shoot first ask questions later mentality also. I have seen a lot of guys wound deer, take some bad running shots etc.

    There is very little respect on the public ground. Guys will hunt right on top of you even if you were there first. I don't get this at all. If I walk in on a guy I don't want to be anywhere near him. I had a spot that I have hunted 20 out of the last 25 opening days. I got there an hour before light last year and 30 minutes into shooting a guy walked in and sat 100 yards in front of me. I am not sure where he was going to shoot but I wasn't sitting around waiting for him to shoot at me.

    There is a lot more to it and some of it is good. I go back to spend time with my family and I get to enjoy Deer Camp. That is the single thing I miss the most is the BS shit talking the night after. Killing a deer anymore in WI is secondary to me. I will normally take a doe or a nice buck given the chance but the meat is giving to one of my family members.

    As far as having the mentors carry a gun I would be ok getting rid of that. Like I said I have carried one with me here in Iowa but for very different reasons, none of which were for me to actually shoot one.

    The age requirement removal I think is a good one. Again no one addressed the fact that 34 other states don't have age requirements. I think you guys should be arguing to add it for those 34 states instead of arguing WI is wrong for opening it up.

  2. #52

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    maxx---A number of members, including myself, addressed the fact that 34 other states have no age restrictions and there have been very few problems because of it!

  3. #53

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    Maxx, thank you for your response. I agree with many of your points. I haven't hunted outside of Wisconsin so I can't say for certain, but I don't believe that I'm going out on a limb when I say that, unfortunately, a lot of these issues are all too common in a lot of places.

  4. #54
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    This always ends up being a heated topic. My thoughts, worth what you paid for them:

    1) If a kid can pass hunter safety, they should be allowed to hunt. This includes a basic understanding of conservation and ethics.
    2) Parental influence will dictate the likelihood of the kid breaking game laws, regardless of whether they are allowed to hunt at age 8 or age 14.
    3) Based on hunting accident statistics, we should not allow males in their early to mid-20's to hunt.
    Fear the beard....

  5. #55

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    I agree with Fwagner.
    Top down, one size fits all edicts from the nanny state are better than letting parents decide.

  6. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by maxx View Post
    geeze get off my lawn.

    What is so bad about letting the parent decide when they think their kid is mature enough to start hunting. I grew up in wi and it sucked i couldn't hunt till i was 12. I was more mature and i was a big enough kid i could have easily started when i was 10.

    My boys are 10 and 12 and i have a 7 year old daughter. Both boys killed their first deer when they were 7. My boys are more mature than a lot of adults around i know. We have always treated them as we would treat anyone, i don't think we ever talked like a baby to them.

    The counts right now are 10 year has 3 deer and 1 hog in texas. My 12 year old has 5 deer, 2 of which he killed with a bow. It has always been like this in iowa for a long time i can recall ever hearing of an incident. I have more concern with kids majority level and understanding what killing an animal means. I felt my boys understood this.

    In iowa it is a 1 to 1 ratio of licensed hunter over 18 to you hunter under 12. Therefore i cant take my 7 year old daughter and 10 year old son at the same time. I can however take more than 1 gun which i don't have a problem. I don't load the guns until we are siting in the stand (muzzle loaders so i don't put the primer in). Since it is a muzzle loader if i have a tag i like having the back up in case a bad shot happens.

    My 7 year old daughter wants to try to kill a deer with a crossbow, the only season we can do that in here is late muzzle loader. I set up a trail camera on a bean field on public ground today. I will let it sit for a couple weeks, the season is a ways off.

    This is great news for wi.
    like, like
    "it's the HUNT, not the KILL"

  7. #57

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    Pfffft! None of my friends would dream of calling me a conservative but I sure as heck don't need the state telling me when my kid is old enough to hunt. Age is just a number. It has nothing to do with how prepared someone is to hunt. My 2 boys both killed their first deer at 8 with me by their side. They carry the gun, unloaded or uncapped. They help set up. If they're not willing to do that they don't hunt. Simple as that. I know "adults" that have less business in the woods with a gun then many 10 year olds.

  8. #58

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    Don't have a problem with it per se, however, I think some form of hunter's safety should be required.
    We salute you, tender creature, for the sacrifice of your juicy meat.

  9. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by airlocksniffer View Post
    Don't have a problem with it per se, however, I think some form of hunter's safety should be required.

    A kid should learn more from their mentor out in the field than any hunters Ed will ever teach them.

  10. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by TimeOnTarget View Post
    A kid should learn more from their mentor out in the field than any hunters Ed will ever teach them.
    That and in Iowa Hunters ed cannot be taken until you are within 6 months of being 12. I put together a class last summer for my son and all his buddies that hunt.

  11. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by Topgun 30-06 View Post
    maxx---A number of members, including myself, addressed the fact that 34 other states have no age restrictions and there have been very few problems because of it!
    Yup but none of the guys against it addressed it. If I was so adamantly against it I would address getting it turn around in those 34 states instead of just saying well one more shouldn't do it.

    The line of thinking doesn't compute with me.

  12. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by j_burkWI View Post
    Maxx, thank you for your response. I agree with many of your points. I haven't hunted outside of Wisconsin so I can't say for certain, but I don't believe that I'm going out on a limb when I say that, unfortunately, a lot of these issues are all too common in a lot of places.
    You are right they are common in a lot of other places but a lot of other places don't have 600k hunters during a 9 day season with limited access to public ground. The issues are the same at other places I just feel like they are compounded more so in WI.

    For the record you wouldn't catch me on Public ground in Iowa during either of the 2 shotgun seasons.

  13. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by TimeOnTarget View Post
    A kid should learn more from their mentor out in the field than any hunters Ed will ever teach them.
    "Should" being the key word. Some mentors shouldn't be hunting.

    We went through this same thing in Montana a few years back. All the same arguments from both sides.


    Every parent thinks their kid is the next Steven Rinella, I know things are different in the east but 6 and 7 year olds out here have no business hunting elk on their own tag.. Since the OP was talking WI, maybe it could work as WI hunting has to be considerably different then MT.

    As far as the question why not let parents decide when the kid is ready, the main thing I remember hearing was game belongs to the state, that means the game and fish depts have to do whats best for the majority of the folks of that state not just the young kids. It is a public resource and must be managed in the best interest of the entire public.
    Last edited by tjones; 11-14-2017 at 11:16 AM.
    In wine there is wisdom, in beer there is freedom, in water there is bacteria.

    ― Benjamin Franklin

  14. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by tjones View Post
    "Should" being the key word. Some mentors shouldn't be hunting.

    We went through this same thing in Montana a few years back. All the same arguments from both sides.


    Every parent thinks their kid is the next Steven Rinella, I know things are different in the east but 6 and 7 year olds out here have no business hunting elk on their own tag.. Since the OP was talking WI, maybe it could work as WI hunting has to be considerably different then MT.

    As far as the question why not let parents decide when the kid is ready, the main thing I remember hearing was game belongs to the state, that means the game and fish depts have to do whats best for the majority of the folks of that state not just the young kids. It is a public resource and must be managed in the best interest of the entire public.

    Very True. Every year I encounter adults who think chasing deer across ag fields with a pickup while hanging out the window blazing away is hunting.

    The thing is, these kids are gunna follow in their parents foot steps no matter what age they start hunting at or what kind of hunter ed class they take.

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by tjones View Post
    "Should" being the key word. Some mentors shouldn't be hunting.
    You're exactly right with this Tony. This then leads to the age old question of "how much do you penalize society because of the dipshits of the world?
    " My daughter shot her first deer at age 9, but I didn't take her elk hunting until she was 13. She wasn't ready. She did however, gain some very good hunting experience and an appreciation for hunting on our deer trips.

    You'd be a lot better served by eliminating the adult idiots from the population. As I said, kids with poor mentors will do stupid shit regardless of their age. Very few young hunters are going to make sound decisions of their own accord and without mentor influence until they are in their late teens. They operate on the example they see.
    Fear the beard....

  16. #66
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    Some of you folks must know a lot of crappy people...

    MTGomer, thanks for the laugh.
    God's trying to bless America, there's just too many people getting in the way.

  17. #67

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    This topic always get people wound up. My three kids started big game hunting at different ages due to the law change in Idaho, starting at ages 10, 11 and 12. All three hiked along on hunts prior to hunting themselves and all three passed hunters ed before hunting. From my experience, I see no reason why to hold kids back from hunting before age 12 if the parents support the decision. All my kids enjoyed their first seasons and I’ve never had a safety issue. If a parent thinks their kid isn’t ready, they should hold them back. I know kids in this situation.

    I don’t understand the hysteria about a mentor carrying a rifle or not letting the youth carry a rifle. I let my kids carry their rifles. They’re hunters - let them act like hunters They also pack meat. I’ve been involved in seven kills this year. Five with youth. On two occasions my youth hunters had rifle jams or scope fogging and I handed my rifle to them to use. My rifle has had a better season than me! I can leave it at home or carry it as seven pounds of insurance. I’m not carrying it to out hunt the kids.

    Hunter recruitment is declining nationwide. Youth hunters are literally the future of hunting. Hunters should encourage programs that bring youth hunters into the industry and stop worrying about myths about safety or loosing tags to youth.

  18. #68

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    Quote Originally Posted by brymoore View Post
    This topic always get people wound up. My three kids started big game hunting at different ages due to the law change in Idaho, starting at ages 10, 11 and 12. All three hiked along on hunts prior to hunting themselves and all three passed hunters ed before hunting. From my experience, I see no reason why to hold kids back from hunting before age 12 if the parents support the decision. All my kids enjoyed their first seasons and I’ve never had a safety issue. If a parent thinks their kid isn’t ready, they should hold them back. I know kids in this situation.

    I don’t understand the hysteria about a mentor carrying a rifle or not letting the youth carry a rifle. I let my kids carry their rifles. They’re hunters - let them act like hunters They also pack meat. I’ve been involved in seven kills this year. Five with youth. On two occasions my youth hunters had rifle jams or scope fogging and I handed my rifle to them to use. My rifle has had a better season than me! I can leave it at home or carry it as seven pounds of insurance. I’m not carrying it to out hunt the kids.

    Hunter recruitment is declining nationwide. Youth hunters are literally the future of hunting. Hunters should encourage programs that bring youth hunters into the industry and stop worrying about myths about safety or loosing tags to youth.
    Awesome thanks for using your time to take kids. My wife has asked me if there was anything I would like to get into as I get older and I said I would like to get people into hunting whether that is youth, disabled, vets or even adults that just want to try it but haven't been shown a path.

    I hope my time comes where I can give back a little but right now it is my time to take my kids and raise them doing this. That is #1 priority for me in the next 10 years! The older I get the less I care about getting mine in, I just need a few days a year to myself.

    Big thumbs up for better example on why having a extra gun isn't a bad idea, that is exactly why I have had an extra when I have carried it.

  19. #69

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    Quote Originally Posted by maxx View Post
    You are right they are common in a lot of other places but a lot of other places don't have 600k hunters during a 9 day season with limited access to public ground. The issues are the same at other places I just feel like they are compounded more so in WI.

    For the record you wouldn't catch me on Public ground in Iowa during either of the 2 shotgun seasons.
    Im from Iowa but have lived in Wisconsin since 2003...if you can't find public land to hunt in Wisconsin you are either illiterate, lazy, or are afraid of computers. Wisconsin has plenty, PLENTY, of public land hunting opportunities. Iowa is a worthless state for public land hunting.

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    I hope some grumpy old men don't have a coronary when Randy airs an episode where a 10 year old apprentice hunter shoots a big buck.


    Since Montana started allowing mentored hunting there has been headline after headline in the papers where mentored hunters have rampantly engaged in legal and ethical violations, fulfilling the predictions of all the naysayers who were adamantly opposed to the mentoring program. *

    (*fake news.)

  21. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by fwagner View Post
    Im from Iowa but have lived in Wisconsin since 2003...if you can't find public land to hunt in Wisconsin you are either illiterate, lazy, or are afraid of computers. Wisconsin has plenty, PLENTY, of public land hunting opportunities. Iowa is a worthless state for public land hunting.
    Awesome name calling!!! Ya there is more public land in WI but there are 4 times the hunters also.

    Like I said I don't go to WI anymore to kill deer. I go there to go to deer camp and hang with the boys. We have our spots that we have hunted for years. Some public and some semi public. I kill a deer almost every year and every 5 to 6 years I kill a decent buck.

    The thing is I don't really care if I kill a deer nor do I want to work real hard at it there anymore. Like I said I go to experience deer camp and hang out. If I never killed another whitetail with a rifle or gun it wouldn't bother me. Don't take that as saying I am going to stop just if someone made me decide between a gun or a bow I am taking a bow every time.

    I put my time and effort into killing big deer here in Iowa. WI is a social event for me. There is nothing wrong with that.

  22. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by fwagner View Post
    Wisconsin has one of the worst Governors, especially if you hunt public land, in the country and we are his signature away from having no minimum age for youth hunters. I personally think it's a terrible law and a minimum age should be required but what really takes the cake is that the law allows for the parent or mentor to ALSO carry a firearm along side the learning and inexperienced hunter. As a professional who works with kids and also has 10+ years volunteering with our local "Learn to Hunt" program I have enough ground to say this law is foolish. I would also say that the WORST objective judge of a child's ability is...his/her...parents...period.



    http://lacrossetribune.com/news/stat...47d1ac133.html

    So what is it, WI is one of the worse states if you hunt public grounds?

    Quote Originally Posted by fwagner View Post
    Im from Iowa but have lived in Wisconsin since 2003...if you can't find public land to hunt in Wisconsin you are either illiterate, lazy, or are afraid of computers. Wisconsin has plenty, PLENTY, of public land hunting opportunities. Iowa is a worthless state for public land hunting.
    Or are you illiterate, lazy and afraid of computers? I am utterly confused.

  23. Default

    I think there are a lot of issues that could improve around youth hunting. I was lucky enough to benefit from youth hunts in the late 90's when they were becoming the norm around the country, but so were half a dozen of my cousins and of that group only 1 or 2 of that group hunt today. Unfortunately youth programs have not been successful at creating or retaining new hunters that otherwise wouldn't exist. As far as I'm concerned, regulations around youth hunting should be driven by data about retention.

    The problem you get with youth programs are going beyond kids just being trigger pullers and getting them acclimated to the challenges of woodsmenship (and Woodwomenship) and access. The problem with the end of youth programs at age 16 or 18 is that you have kids so busy with activities and likely moving away for college or a job which creates many challenges around hunting even for experienced people. You end up pulling the carpet out from under new hunters. These are all issues to look at helping ease.

    I do not think there is much reason in arguing whether 10 or 12 or 14 is the right age for all kids to be hunting, but I really start to wonder whether a 6 year old who just learned to tie his shoe can comprehend the ethical and moral responsibility of killing a deer. That is a huge problem IMO about youth hunting. The question is always can the kid handle a firearm safely and competently and not whether or not they understand the serious nature of taking a life and utilizing the resources that come from the animal. Its only natural to become somewhat numb to the violence within hunting and I think its a dangerous thing for a child to become numb to the act before they realize what is going on.

    These discussions shouldn't be about my kids were so competent at X age, but rather how you frame programs for kids in family's that don't hunt or are part of more casual hunting culture. I also think that new adult hunting programs need the same resources as youth hunting programs because they are more successful at retaining lifelong hunters.

  24. #74

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flatland Crusoe View Post
    I think there are a lot of issues that could improve around youth hunting. I was lucky enough to benefit from youth hunts in the late 90's when they were becoming the norm around the country, but so were half a dozen of my cousins and of that group only 1 or 2 of that group hunt today. Unfortunately youth programs have not been successful at creating or retaining new hunters that otherwise wouldn't exist. As far as I'm concerned, regulations around youth hunting should be driven by data about retention.

    The problem you get with youth programs are going beyond kids just being trigger pullers and getting them acclimated to the challenges of woodsmenship (and Woodwomenship) and access. The problem with the end of youth programs at age 16 or 18 is that you have kids so busy with activities and likely moving away for college or a job which creates many challenges around hunting even for experienced people. You end up pulling the carpet out from under new hunters. These are all issues to look at helping ease.

    I do not think there is much reason in arguing whether 10 or 12 or 14 is the right age for all kids to be hunting, but I really start to wonder whether a 6 year old who just learned to tie his shoe can comprehend the ethical and moral responsibility of killing a deer. That is a huge problem IMO about youth hunting. The question is always can the kid handle a firearm safely and competently and not whether or not they understand the serious nature of taking a life and utilizing the resources that come from the animal. Its only natural to become somewhat numb to the violence within hunting and I think its a dangerous thing for a child to become numb to the act before they realize what is going on.

    These discussions shouldn't be about my kids were so competent at X age, but rather how you frame programs for kids in family's that don't hunt or are part of more casual hunting culture. I also think that new adult hunting programs need the same resources as youth hunting programs because they are more successful at retaining lifelong hunters.
    Yes and no on this. It was a big concern of mine the first year I took my oldest hunting. I wondered if he fully understood what he was doing and if he was truly ok with it. It worked out.

    The only point I would like to make is you really don't hear the same thing being talked about with farm kids. It is just a part of life because they have always been around it. Hell hunting to me is easier to understand than raising a 4H cattle, showing it at the State fair and then coming home and butchering the dam thing. That to me is a weird but I didn't grow up that way. Kind of the same thing with sex. They understand it at a much earlier age than most kids because they are just around it all the time.

    We as adults don't give kids enough credit sometimes when it comes to real world bigger than life issues. I think it has gotten worse with life moving more urban.

  25. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by maxx View Post
    So what is it, WI is one of the worse states if you hunt public grounds?



    Or are you illiterate, lazy and afraid of computers? I am utterly confused.
    Let me slow this down for you as you seem to be constantly confused....

    1. Scott Walker is anti public land, he has openly said this and his action confirm those views as he has sold thousands of acres of public land. You can even go on the DNR website and view the land they are trying to sell. On top of that he appoints unqualified people to head up the DNR, who know nothing of what the outdoor industry provides to the state.

    2. I am the one who pointed out that Wisconsin has plenty of (as of now) public land opportunities so as far as your attempt to use my comment against me I am at a loss....maybe you need a dictionary or a better grasp of reading understanding.

    3. I don't oppose the lowering of the age but I do oppose the mentor carrying a gun. The excuse that you need a back up rifle is nothing less then ridiculous. Nobody on this forum carries a gun in their hand and a gun slung on their shoulder while hunting so why would you teach a kid that way, it's a bad practice and a quality mentor would never do it.

    4. Any other questions?

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