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  1. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flatland Crusoe View Post
    I think there are a lot of issues that could improve around youth hunting. I was lucky enough to benefit from youth hunts in the late 90's when they were becoming the norm around the country, but so were half a dozen of my cousins and of that group only 1 or 2 of that group hunt today. Unfortunately youth programs have not been successful at creating or retaining new hunters that otherwise wouldn't exist. As far as I'm concerned, regulations around youth hunting should be driven by data about retention.

    The problem you get with youth programs are going beyond kids just being trigger pullers and getting them acclimated to the challenges of woodsmenship (and Woodwomenship) and access. The problem with the end of youth programs at age 16 or 18 is that you have kids so busy with activities and likely moving away for college or a job which creates many challenges around hunting even for experienced people. You end up pulling the carpet out from under new hunters. These are all issues to look at helping ease.

    I do not think there is much reason in arguing whether 10 or 12 or 14 is the right age for all kids to be hunting, but I really start to wonder whether a 6 year old who just learned to tie his shoe can comprehend the ethical and moral responsibility of killing a deer. That is a huge problem IMO about youth hunting. The question is always can the kid handle a firearm safely and competently and not whether or not they understand the serious nature of taking a life and utilizing the resources that come from the animal. Its only natural to become somewhat numb to the violence within hunting and I think its a dangerous thing for a child to become numb to the act before they realize what is going on.

    These discussions shouldn't be about my kids were so competent at X age, but rather how you frame programs for kids in family's that don't hunt or are part of more casual hunting culture. I also think that new adult hunting programs need the same resources as youth hunting programs because they are more successful at retaining lifelong hunters.
    Great post....honestly, a lot of good things in here. I think we all need to remember that kids from the ages of high school through college are super busy and sometimes retention isn't a failure of the program or lack of opportunity it's just that some people don't have the desire to go hunting. It really is that simple. Really like what you said about mentoring programs for adults. I think that's a great place to increase numbers of hunters!

  2. #77

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    Quote Originally Posted by fwagner View Post
    Let me slow this down for you as you seem to be constantly confused....

    1. Scott Walker is anti public land, he has openly said this and his action confirm those views as he has sold thousands of acres of public land. You can even go on the DNR website and view the land they are trying to sell. On top of that he appoints unqualified people to head up the DNR, who know nothing of what the outdoor industry provides to the state. Sure but how much difference has it made so far? WI has a decent amount of public land but you act like it is the same as Alaska, simply not.

    2. I am the one who pointed out that Wisconsin has plenty of (as of now) public land opportunities so as far as your attempt to use my comment against me I am at a loss....maybe you need a dictionary or a better grasp of reading understanding. Ya it wasn't hard when you are talking out of both sides of your mouth.

    3. I don't oppose the lowering of the age but I do oppose the mentor carrying a gun. The excuse that you need a back up rifle is nothing less then ridiculous. Nobody on this forum carries a gun in their hand and a gun slung on their shoulder while hunting so why would you teach a kid that way, it's a bad practice and a quality mentor would never do it. You have said a few times you appose both. I have said a few times I cant take or leave the mentor carrying another gun. I have had my kids out hunting a lot and I think I only carried an extra gun a time or two. Depends on the type of hunting I am doing. I cant tell you the last time I went on a waterfowl hunt with my boat that I didn't have an extra gun with me. I take two of everything when I travel out of state.

    4. Any other questions?
    Nope.

  3. #78

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    I can't understand what the big hangup is with the mentor having a gun! If they know what in the heck they are doing to be a mentor in the first place (I'm sure a certain percentage don't, but that can't be fixed), what is the problem with them properly handling their gun because it would be a plus for the kid to see. Are you worried that the adult is going to shoot the game for the kid or what because if the mentor is properly trained it shouldn't be a safety issue? Cripes, when I was 5 and started hunting with my Dad I had an unloaded gun the first year or two and then a loaded one from then on and he always had his shotgun when I was out with him right from the start.

  4. #79
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Gods Country, Colorado
    Posts
    2,558

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    Quote Originally Posted by fwagner View Post
    Let me slow this down for you as you seem to be constantly confused....

    1. Scott Walker is anti public land, he has openly said this and his action confirm those views as he has sold thousands of acres of public land. You can even go on the DNR website and view the land they are trying to sell. On top of that he appoints unqualified people to head up the DNR, who know nothing of what the outdoor industry provides to the state.

    2. I am the one who pointed out that Wisconsin has plenty of (as of now) public land opportunities so as far as your attempt to use my comment against me I am at a loss....maybe you need a dictionary or a better grasp of reading understanding.

    3. I don't oppose the lowering of the age but I do oppose the mentor carrying a gun. The excuse that you need a back up rifle is nothing less then ridiculous. Nobody on this forum carries a gun in their hand and a gun slung on their shoulder while hunting so why would you teach a kid that way, it's a bad practice and a quality mentor would never do it.

    4. Any other questions?
    Is this how you mentor?
    God's trying to bless America, there's just too many people getting in the way.

  5. #80

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zach View Post
    Is this how you mentor?
    Good one Zach!

  6. #81

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    A quality mentor eliminates anything that distracts from focusing on the mentee, including carrying a gun. Imo

  7. #82

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    Quote Originally Posted by TimeOnTarget View Post
    A kid should learn more from their mentor out in the field than any hunters Ed will ever teach them.
    The apprentice program had started a year or so before my son was old enough to take hunter's safety. I chose for him to wait and sit through 3 long days of hunter's ed. Why? Well for one, he is very much an academic kid so a classroom type format was beneficial for him. Also the information outside of just pulling the trigger (which I'm afraid is probably about as much as some mentors would even cover with a young hunter) including habitat, conservation, etc is as important as knowing how to pull the trigger.

    I do agree with Tony regarding the utilization of a public resource, which I don't think can be discounted. ToT, you are also absolutely right that a kid with some knucklehead mentor is going to make knuckleheaded decisions, hunter's safety or not. Perhaps young hunter's participating in a mentor type program rather than hunter's safety should be required to show what they know after their mentorship is over? If they fail, the mentor loses their hunting privileges.

    I'm only half joking..
    We salute you, tender creature, for the sacrifice of your juicy meat.

  8. #83

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    Quote Originally Posted by fwagner View Post
    A quality mentor eliminates anything that distracts from focusing on the mentee, including carrying a gun. Imo
    IMO, a quality mentor can do both and if they can't probably they don't may not deserve the quality adjective...

  9. #84
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Gods Country, Colorado
    Posts
    2,558

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1_pointer View Post
    IMO, a quality mentor can do both and if they can't probably they don't may not deserve the quality adjective...
    Exactly!
    God's trying to bless America, there's just too many people getting in the way.

  10. #85

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1_pointer View Post
    IMO, a quality mentor can do both and if they can't probably they don't may not deserve the quality adjective...
    I'll agree with that.

  11. #86
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Danbury, Wisconsin
    Posts
    235

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    Quote Originally Posted by maxx View Post
    Nope.
    Actually, the difference made by our current political regime and the political appointees at the head of the WDNR have made quite a negative difference. To say otherwise is ignorance in my opinion, so I would say that you are way off base with the question "what difference has it made?". As far as public land, we have plenty of it in the north, a lot of which is pretty underutilized in the north because of the fear of the big bad wolf and the fact that everyone wants to hunt in the southern portion of the state where it is a lot easier. This is all perfectly fine by me.

    As far as the bill is concerned, I am fine with it. Not sure why the mentor should be allowed to carry a gun, but honestly I don't feel that strongly about it. We have a lot bigger fish to fry than this
    Last edited by Northwoods Labs; 11-16-2017 at 09:32 PM.

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