Wisconsin is about to eliminate minimum age for hunting!!

MNElkNut · Nov 9, 2017

I have taught firearm safety for over 20 years and have been bringing with my kids since they were 3-4 years old (they just came along, no gun work for them). The kids that are mature enough to understand all the needed aspects of firearm safety at less then 10 years old are very rare. there are a bunch that can get it right 80-90% of the time though (80-90% doesn't cut it for me when talking firearm safety). Most of the worst ones are the ones that come from families that do a lot of hunting and the kid is thus a know-it-all.

The type of hunting open to young kids matters a lot as well. Pheasant hunting for example, is actually a hard thing for young kids to do as the shooting zones change constantly. You have dogs and the parent, etc. and it makes it pretty hard for a newbie. On the other hand, my boys got to duck/goose hunt this year for the first time. I left my gun at home (and thus it was one of our best years ever for geese!!) every single time so I could dedicate 100% of my time to them. After that experience, it is stupid to allow the parents to bring a gun IMHO.

I would love for their to be as many opportunities as possible for kids. Reduced price tags and youth only hunts are great.

MN Public Hunter · Nov 9, 2017

I'm on the side of not so much age, but safety, knowing what killing is and understands it and can they actually operate the weapon 100% by themselves. Operate means carry it, hold it up and aim and not put it on some sticks for them, draw the minimum draw weight for a bow and if they can use a crossbow they need to be able to @#)(# and operate it. I see this time after time these 6-8 years old's that in no way can even IMO operate the weapon so why should they be hunting? I personally know very few kids under 10-12 that are mature enough or strong enough to hunt so that is where I lean when it comes to age.

JLDemo · Nov 9, 2017

fwagner said:
When you see people post with statistics about how many deer their kids have taken....those are the parents that worry more then anyone.

Well that came out of left field...While my opinion is to lower the minimum age and maintain a minimum age while allowing a youth to hunt with a mentor at a younger age than the minimum, I can't imagine ever questioning a parent who allows their child to take more game than them. Just sounds silly to question. I'd gladly allow my son and daughter to fill the tags while I watch, can't think of a single reason that's wrong in any facet. Hell, even if I had a gun while being a mentor I'd let them shoot first. Coach by example.

maxx, those are some great pictures! Keep on keepin' on!

fwagner · Nov 9, 2017

MNElkNut said:
I have taught firearm safety for over 20 years and have been bringing with my kids since they were 3-4 years old (they just came along, no gun work for them). The kids that are mature enough to understand all the needed aspects of firearm safety at less then 10 years old are very rare. there are a bunch that can get it right 80-90% of the time though (80-90% doesn't cut it for me when talking firearm safety). Most of the worst ones are the ones that come from families that do a lot of hunting and the kid is thus a know-it-all.

The type of hunting open to young kids matters a lot as well. Pheasant hunting for example, is actually a hard thing for young kids to do as the shooting zones change constantly. You have dogs and the parent, etc. and it makes it pretty hard for a newbie. On the other hand, my boys got to duck/goose hunt this year for the first time. I left my gun at home (and thus it was one of our best years ever for geese!!) every single time so I could dedicate 100% of my time to them. After that experience, it is stupid to allow the parents to bring a gun IMHO.

I would love for their to be as many opportunities as possible for kids. Reduced price tags and youth only hunts are great.

This is a objective opinion based on a many years of expert training...posting pics of your kids and what they have taken is missing the point. Nobody is attacking anyone as a parent, obviously good memories are being made but I know PLENTY of parents who will take this law as a method to compare their kids to other kids and have their kid be the youngest kid to get a deer...and you know it.

fwagner · Nov 9, 2017

mn public hunter said:
i'm on the side of not so much age, but safety, knowing what killing is and understands it and can they actually operate the weapon 100% by themselves. Operate means carry it, hold it up and aim and not put it on some sticks for them, draw the minimum draw weight for a bow and if they can use a crossbow they need to be able to @#)(# and operate it. I see this time after time these 6-8 years old's that in no way can even imo operate the weapon so why should they be hunting? I personally know very few kids under 10-12 that are mature enough or strong enough to hunt so that is where i lean when it comes to age.

exactly this!!!!

maxx · Nov 9, 2017

MN Public Hunter said:
I'm on the side of not so much age, but safety, knowing what killing is and understands it and can they actually operate the weapon 100% by themselves. Operate means carry it, hold it up and aim and not put it on some sticks for them, draw the minimum draw weight for a bow and if they can use a crossbow they need to be able to @#)(# and operate it. I see this time after time these 6-8 years old's that in no way can even IMO operate the weapon so why should they be hunting? I personally know very few kids under 10-12 that are mature enough or strong enough to hunt so that is where I lean when it comes to age.

Why? It is still a mentor program, they just lowered the age. I allowed my kids to carry an unloaded gun in the field but never loaded. Once it was loaded I would do most of the work with the gun, ie get it in position for them to take over. It has worked well.

maxx · Nov 9, 2017

fwagner said:
This is a objective opinion based on a many years of expert training...posting pics of your kids and what they have taken is missing the point. Nobody is attacking anyone as a parent, obviously good memories are being made but I know PLENTY of parents who will take this law as a method to compare their kids to other kids and have their kid be the youngest kid to get a deer...and you know it.

It isn't missing the point. The bigger point is I don't like the government telling me how to raise my kids or allow me to parent how I want.

You keep hearing about hunter numbers declining there is so much more competing for kids attention. I had my older boy out shooting. I loaded up a muzzle loader with 50 grains of powder and it wasn't surprisingly comfortable to shoot. I asked him if wanted to try he said yes and ringed a bulls eye at 50 yards. I asked him if he would want to try to shoot a deer he said yes. He was 7 and he shot his first deer.

I wasn't sure if the kid really enjoyed hunting or if he just wanted to hang with dad. I kept thinking that for the last 4 years and then last year a light switched turned on and I could tell he was just into it. I am not sure this kid would have been that into it if he couldn't participate. Again this kid is very mature always has been. He is a complete hunting nut now and I am freaking ecstatic about it. He is also turned into a heck of an archer he just enjoys it more. Last year he had a basketball tournament. I asked him if he wanted to go to a Pool play game or go hunting he choose hunting, awesome.

My younger one has always been fascinated with it.

MNElkNut · Nov 9, 2017

fwagner,
I agree wholeheartedly. Posting pictures of my kids hunting makes me so darn proud...but I sure don't want to compare them to anyone. I just brought my daughter on an antelope hunt and I sure was tempted to post that picture in this thread. The one thing I really am trying hard to teach them is that success is so much sweeter if you earn the reward. Thus we earned both of our antelope. We belly crawled through cactus and she did it even after she had hers just so she could video tape mine! Setting up a kid and doing all the work so they only have to pull the trigger is not teaching kids to hunt, but rather only to kill.

I have a real passion for getting kids involved in the outdoors. I have organized an event called Youth Outdoor Activity Day that drew 2,180 kids to it last year and I would love to share the model that can be replicated anywhere to anyone that would like to see it. Just PM me if interested.

maxx · Nov 9, 2017

MNElkNut said:
fwagner,
I agree wholeheartedly. Posting pictures of my kids hunting makes me so darn proud...but I sure don't want to compare them to anyone. I just brought my daughter on an antelope hunt and I sure was tempted to post that picture in this thread. The one thing I really am trying hard to teach them is that success is so much sweeter if you earn the reward. Thus we earned both of our antelope. We belly crawled through cactus and she did it even after she had hers just so she could video tape mine! Setting up a kid and doing all the work so they only have to pull the trigger is not teaching kids to hunt, but rather only to kill.

I have a real passion for getting kids involved in the outdoors. I have organized an event called Youth Outdoor Activity Day that drew 2,180 kids to it last year and I would love to share the model that can be replicated anywhere to anyone that would like to see it. Just PM me if interested.

Yup and you walked up hill to school both way in the snow 365 days a year, the snow part is entirely possible in MN.

My kids help set stands, check cameras, gut deer, drag deer, skin, process, etc. Making it easier for them to be successful early doesn't take anything away from it. It is still difficult just being there age and they still have a lot of limitations early. I am not sure why everyone thinks everything in life has to hard and earned. Ya a lot does but not everything has to be that way.

I say this all the time I am shocked that I love doing this stuff so much. I was cold, wet, bored, forced to stay all of the above by my dad yet I still loved it. That doesn't mean it is the only way. I only casually enjoy fishing anymore. I was force to stay out way past what I wanted to.

In one breath guys will say it earned and then in the other breath they say make it all about the kids make them successful.

What part of that article are you guys missing that 34 other states don't have an age restriction. If you guys are so against that there should be a restriction you should be arguing against those 34 for states not having it compared to arguing that WI is dumb for getting rid of it.

MNElkNut · Nov 9, 2017

Maxx, are you suggesting Youth Outdoor Activity Day didn't draw 2,180 kids by your comment about walking to school?

schmalts · Nov 9, 2017

Have a little faith in common man, and keep Government out of telling us when are kids are responsible enough to do something. I took my kid to NM when he was 8 to hunt lopes, it still sits as one of my best hunting memories. I argued with a know it all hunter safety instructor in WI that didn't even know the laws of the state he lives in, and got my son through hunter safety when he was 8 (this was when WI hunting age was 12, he said he could not take it until he was older) just so we could go to NM to hunt. The instructor later after the field day (I did the online course with him, and yes me as father is capable of teaching his son better than said know-it-all HS instructor) admitted my son, who got only one wrong on the written test, passed the field test PERFECT. Yes there are some kids who are not mature enough at 8, or even 17 for that matter but let's let the parents be the judge. The amount of kids below 10 or 12 that will even be allowed by parents to hunt will be tiny, and those will most likely always be at Dad's or Grandpa's side.

Zach · Nov 9, 2017

fwagner said:
This is a objective opinion based on a many years of expert training...posting pics of your kids and what they have taken is missing the point. Nobody is attacking anyone as a parent, obviously good memories are being made but I know PLENTY of parents who will take this law as a method to compare their kids to other kids and have their kid be the youngest kid to get a deer...and you know it.

I know plenty who would love to have this opportunity to start their kids younger. There are exceptions to all rules, but stopping a majority of good parents isn't the solution.

I've got 4 myself. My oldest 2 were more than mature enough. My 3rd didn't show interest in hunting. My 4th, the boy, is 9 and isn't mature enough for hunting yet, but he has his own pellet gun and pellet pistol.

As far as the mentor having or not having a gun, I think the instances of the mentor gun being used is minimal. No more than the mentor taking the gun from the youth and using.

Did you see my earlier question?

tjones · Nov 9, 2017

schmalts said:
Have a little faith in common man, and keep Government out of telling us when are kids are responsible enough to do something. I took my kid to NM when he was 8 to hunt lopes, it still sits as one of my best hunting memories. I argued with a know it all hunter safety instructor in WI that didn't even know the laws of the state he lives in, and got my son through hunter safety when he was 8 (this was when WI hunting age was 12, he said he could not take it until he was older) just so we could go to NM to hunt. The instructor later after the field day (I did the online course with him, and yes me as father is capable of teaching his son better than said know-it-all HS instructor) admitted my son, who got only one wrong on the written test, passed the field test PERFECT. Yes there are some kids who are not mature enough at 8, or even 17 for that matter but let's let the parents be the judge. The amount of kids below 10 or 12 that will even be allowed by parents to hunt will be tiny, and those will most likely always be at Dad's or Grandpa's side.

No faith here.

http://ravallirepublic.com/news/state-and-regional/article_15ae9490-923a-5997-8970-fff9ab0a31eb.html

schmalts · Nov 9, 2017

tjones said:
No faith here.

http://ravallirepublic.com/news/state-and-regional/article_15ae9490-923a-5997-8970-fff9ab0a31eb.html

And no one over 12 has ever done anything similar.....

Zach · Nov 9, 2017

tjones said:
No faith here.

http://ravallirepublic.com/news/state-and-regional/article_15ae9490-923a-5997-8970-fff9ab0a31eb.html

Well, lets hope MT laws don't change then. Seems that state is messed up...

tjones · Nov 9, 2017

schmalts said:
And no one over 12 has ever done anything similar.....

You whiffed the point. These were parents who “didn’t want no gubermint telling me how to raise my kids.”

MN Public Hunter · Nov 9, 2017

maxx said:
Why? It is still a mentor program, they just lowered the age. I allowed my kids to carry an unloaded gun in the field but never loaded. Once it was loaded I would do most of the work with the gun, ie get it in position for them to take over. It has worked well.

Why? Because of the reason I stated, they can't operate the gun or bow it's a safety issue and a strength issue. IMO as I stated If they can't do 100% of the work to do the killing, then they should not be killing. I get people want to mentor their kids or other kids and get them into the outdoors, but IMO 6-8 year olds don't have the mental capacity to understand it, they shake their head and say the do...but...IMO again, don't believe they do. If you can't hold up the gun all on your own or pull the bow back, again, you should not be killing.

fwagner · Nov 9, 2017

Lower the age, okay let's have that debate but the mentor carrying a gun also is not the way to do it. Especially if the age is lowered. I participate in a "Learn to Hunt" program sponsored by the Wisconsin DNR where the minimum age is 10 and we obviously don't carry a gun....because it's not about us and that's not responsible.

schmalts · Nov 9, 2017

tjones said:
You whiffed the point. These were parents who “didn’t want no gubermint telling me how to raise my kids.”

It's irrelevant, no matter if you don't want "gubment" staying out of your life, or you want to work for it, game violations are always going to happen by adults and minors. The main point of the age laws is safety.

Northwoods Labs · Nov 10, 2017

The big point being missed is the mentor being able to carry a gun, which is something I don't agree with at all.

Our legislature is going about trying to increase the interest in hunting in all the wrong ways, basically by eliminating all regulations. Tags? Get rid of them. CWD? Who cares. Baiting? Let it happen (even when serious hunters are against it). Motor trolling? Hey, if it is easier to catch fish we are all for it. Let's try and make game warden's jobs more difficult while we are at it. Oh yea, and folks like Joel Kleefisch and Tom Tiffany are certainly much more knowledgeable in the fields of wildlife ecology and the management of our lakes than trained biologists. Yea, our legislature is certainly doing a lot of positive for hunting. . Those people who don't like the big bad guvment must love it though

Wisconsin is about to eliminate minimum age for hunting!!

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