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Changes to New Mexico Outfitter Pool

NoWiser

NoWiser

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It looks like New Mexico is considering changing their rules regarding the outfitter pool. Right now if you draw in the outfitter pool you are only required to be accompanied by your guide for a part of 2 days. You are then free to hunt unguided for the remainder of the season. The New Mexico Council of Outfitters and Guides is in the process of getting these rules changed so that your license is only valid for the days you are contracted with your outfitter and so that you need to be accompanied by a guide. So, you could draw 1st archery, a two week hunt, and be guided the first week only. Currently if you are unsuccessful you can continue to hunt. With the proposed changes, this would not be allowed.

If this rule change passes, odds in the DIY pool will drop even farther as these minimally guided hunts have gained popularity over the last few years, spreading more applicants between the outfitter and DIY pool. Apparently the welfare outfitters in NM currently receive isn't enough. They want more.

http://www.nmoutfitters.com/outfitter-guide-resources

Contact the Game Commission if you feel inclined to voice your opinion.

http://www.wildlife.state.nm.us/commission/meet-the-commissioners/
 
Interesting, I wonder if we start seeing more "drop camps" offered after this rule is enacted. It looks like that is the only loop hole.
 
WapitiBob said:
The Commission is changing their "interpretation" of the rule, NOT the Outfitters.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the clarification WB. The email I received claimed it was pressure from the New Mexico Council of Outfitters and Guides, on the commission, that spurred this change. Either way, I don't think it's a good thing.
 
Edit: You may are right, I should have dug deeper.
There are some outfitters that are against drop camps as we know them in all other western states, wanting only 100% outfitted hunts in NM, and the 2 day rule was a compromise. It appears some on the Outfitter Council want to revert back to those days and brought this forward to the Commission.
 
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Welfare has unintended consequences whether it be in AK where a guide is required for certain species for NR, or WY where a guide is required on certain land if a NR hunting (can fish or hike or collect butterflies without a guide) or in NM where F&G slashed NR allocation while restricting lands NR could hunt though then came up with a wink wink nod nod "non-outfittted" outfitter pool loophole you could option into (only pay if drawn) as a NR applicant to get better odds.

If interesting how the fly-by-nighter 2-day outfitters took so much business from the traditional outfitters that changes are now being requested. Welcome to welfare except when are getting the welfare it is definitely, absolutely not welfare. Except, it is.
 
I really wish I cared enough to spend time on this...I've written off NM as the most corrupt State when it comes to tag allocations, landowner permits, outfitter sponsored tags, etc.

Its more than apparent that the only thing they care about is outfitters and landowners.

I wasted a bunch of time when the last change was made that took more from DIY hunters (which was already ridiculously low). After that goat-*&%$ I stopped applying in NM and unless drastic changes are made, don't see ever hunting or applying there again.

I would join in on a sign-in letter, something like that, but that's about as far as I'd go effort wise.
 
Couldn't have said it any better then Buzz.I still apply though because they do offer some good elk hunts.I'll probably never draw but I have to at least try; like the powerball.Now if they take the refundable license fee away then I'll be done.Between outfitters and landowner tags it really is a corupt system
 
LopeHunter said:
If interesting how the fly-by-nighter 2-day outfitters took so much business from the traditional outfitters that changes are now being requested. Welcome to welfare except when are getting the welfare it is definitely, absolutely not welfare. Except, it is.
Click to expand...

Lopehunter, you are absolutely correct! The outfitters made their own bed, except they made it too inviting and now they are finding it too crowded to lie in comfortably. So, instead of accepting the consequences, they are crying for a rule change. In a way it's pretty dang funny, but this rule change would definitely hurt the hunter of average means looking to experience New Mexico.

Every state has things to dislike. Wyoming has their wilderness rule and expensive points that are creeping up the ying-yang, Montana has high priced tags and a waged war on elk populations, Arizona has an overpriced hunting license just to apply, Utah has SFW and the expo tags, Nevada has an expensive application for diminishing draw odds (points squared), and New Mexico has outfitter and landowner tags. As a nonresident in all of these states, I've just accepted these and make my application decisions accordingly. At $13.00 to apply and a random draw, I see New Mexico as my best value (actual chance at drawing a premium tag for a low cost) when application season comes around.
 
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Under the current rules a guy could draw a permit in the guided draw and have a guide meet him anywhere in the unit at 11:59 pm (at a gas station for example) they could shake hands and the guide could roll down the road a minute later, that is all that needs to happen to be in compliance with the law. Sounds like a situation ripe for abuse since the applicant pool does not discriminate between Res and Nonres. NM as a whole is so far behind the rest of the country when it comes to anything, it doesn’t surprise me it took them this long to fix the loophole that never should have been there to begin with.
 
Labman said:
Under the current rules a guy could draw a permit in the guided draw and have a guide meet him anywhere in the unit at 11:59 pm (at a gas station for example) they could shake hands and the guide could roll down the road a minute later, that is all that needs to happen to be in compliance with the law. Sounds like a situation ripe for abuse since the applicant pool does not discriminate between Res and Nonres. NM as a whole is so far behind the rest of the country when it comes to anything, it doesn’t surprise me it took them this long to fix the loophole that never should have been there to begin with.
Click to expand...

What’s wrong with this?
 
I'd love to hire outfitters and do some cool hunts but using public resources for personal profit prevents me from ever giving them a single penny.
 
NoWiser said:
What’s wrong with this?
Click to expand...

Nothing I suppose if you or your buddies are the ones benefiting from it. I suppose if you are an outfitter and you are filling up with gas at midnight and see a bunch of guys shaking hands and saying good luck while your clients are sitting at home because they didn’t pull a tag at some point you are going to find an issue with it.
 
Every western state except NM has drop camps where the guide spends an unspecified amount of time with the clients and as such, the NM legislation was written specifically to exclude a specific number of hours. The two day requirement was put in to appease some Outfitters who were against the "drop camp" concept. The current change in "interpretation" was brought forward by some of those same outfitters. There is nothing in the Legislation that would limit the license other than the approved season dates.
 
If it passes I guess the drop camp crowd will have to apply in one of the other two applicant pools. They can still have a drop camp, just not in the outfitter pool. The only other western state that has outfitter preferential treatment is NV with their outfitter deer draw. Couldn’t find any info on their regs if they allow drop camps with guys that draw those tags.
 
I forgot WA and OR aren’t on my radar. 50%, sounds like a lot.
 
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