Wyoming 2018

3855WIN said:

Is the state charging them the lease fees? No. The state charges the liscense fee. Big difference.

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The landowner tags I referred to from New Mexico are being used on public land. No lease fees there. The most expensive tag on that list was $15,000. I've hunted one of the units that has a $2,250 rifle tag and I would take a Wyoming general tag over that tag any day of the week if they were both up for sale (except Wyoming doesn't have transferable landowner tags).

I just want to clarify for everyone's sake. You all do know that WGFD does not set their license fees? That is done by the state legislature.

icebreaker12 said:

I just want to clarify for everyone's sake. You all do know that WGFD does not set their license fees? That is done by the state legislature.

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Good point. And the legislature has been starving out Game and fish, right?

3855WIN said:

Is the state charging them the lease fees? No. The state charges the liscense fee. Big difference.

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That big difference is precisely the point. If big game tag prices were determined by supply and demand instead of state governments, they'd be WAY HIGHER than they are, even WITH fee increases. If a guy is willing to pay over $3,000 for a whitetail hunt, imagine how much some would pay for a bull elk hunt where he has a lot more than 100 acres to himself.

I agree with mixedbag, the fee increases on the special draw are going to absolutely price some people out of that draw. Those willing to stay in the special draw will see improved odds. The increases are roughly 20% for NR's. For Special Draw elk, that's about $200. Give up a few steak dinners each year, and you've made up the difference.

3855WIN said:

Is the state charging them the lease fees? No. The state charges the liscense fee. Big difference.

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Yes and no. There is a huge value in a state issued tag where public land might be 50% or 90% of a unit instead of being required to pay so much to access land.

I don't disagree with the idea that the government exist to protect things that the private sector can't or won't protect, but when states are charging non residents an order of magnitude more than resident fees the idea of the goes out the window. Western game agencies run themselves like a business off of the back of nonresident dollars.

If you look at hunting license sales across the US they are either flat or slightly declining, yet Wyoming saw a 20% increase in applications in 2017. It isn't really a mystery why that is, as a state Wyoming manages opportunity and quality together better than anyone. They give out 25%+ of tags out to nonresidents versus the normal 10% you see most places. The numbers are out there and success rates are very good and the wait to get tags are pretty reasonable. They have a very streamlined preference point system that doesn't require hunters are very invested into getting points for one or a few species. The economy is doing quite well right now and people are taking trips to hunt.

Hunting out of state is a commodity and of the 10 or so states I've hunted Wyoming offers the best product. It's going to take more than a 20% increase in tag cost to offset the opportunity the state offers.

Flatland Crusoe said:

Yes and no. There is a huge value in a state issued tag where public land might be 50% or 90% of a unit instead of being required to pay so much to access land.

I don't disagree with the idea that the government exist to protect things that the private sector can't or won't protect, but when states are charging non residents an order of magnitude more than resident fees the idea of the goes out the window. Western game agencies run themselves like a business off of the back of nonresident dollars.

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Why would it work any other way? Further it's not the government it's the residence of the state that want it to be that way and it makes perfect sense. If I like to hunt and I am a resident from CO why would I want people from other states to be able to come here and hunt and limit my opportunity... well maybe because I can only let in a small portion of them, limit the units they can apply to, and pay bare the majority of the cost.

Wildlife is held in trust by the State not the Federal government. You maybe be a citizen of the US but not of WY and WY doesn't have to give you squat, it lets you hunt because your dollars pay for the system for everyone else, the state could say only residents get to hunt in WY period.

Now given how seemingly unfair this system is imagine if we transfer federal land to the state and the citizens of a state control the game and the land.

I agree Wyoming does a great job with wildlife and opportunity. They also don’t have many people and can squeeze in a few more hunters than say Arizona. Hunting is a 300 million dollar industry for Wyoming. The resident hunters might not care for NR hunters, but plenty of other citizens are glad to get the money. Wyoming supposedly got around 9.5 million in elk tag fees last year. I’m guessing about half of that was NR fees.

wllm1313 said:

Not to hijack this thread, but please tell me this really happened and that there is more to the story, what state were you in?

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AZ. My adopted state. In the drier AZ elk units during archery season the waterholes and water tanks often have something placed there "giving ownership" to that person yet as you scout you see the same name or similar chairs on multiple water holes. Might just be a game cam. On public land. Rather silly and to me seems is abandoned property or littering. You should see the blood pressure climbing when are set up first and refuse to move. In Utah, people will live an old trailer hogging a spot for months. Are supposed to move after a few weeks but enforcement is spotty at best.

Ive had guys in Az try to kick me out of entire blocks of forest up at bear flats in 22. They figure since they live near by, they own the while forest.

it absolutely puts the "special" priced tags further out of reach and lowers there "bang for the buck"potential,as far as im concerned,,Wyoming is getting pretty greedy these days,,not saying Oregon is any better either,,,greed,mismanagement{on oregons part} is starting to make people question whether they should spend the bucks to go hunting these days,imo

I feel sorry for the next generations.

As a blue collar working stiff, I was able to afford all the hunts I wanted to in my life. I was fortunate to hunt dall sheep, moose multiple times, caribou(5 times) elk multiple times, mulies multiple times, antelope 5 times, BC goat, etc......

There is no way my nephews will ever be able to duplicate those experiences. And that's sad.
We are heading the way of European hunting, only for the wealthy. And I believe it is only going to get worst.

480/277y said:

I feel sorry for the next generations. There is no way my nephews will ever be able to duplicate those experiences. And that's sad.

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Sad, indeed.
My nephews have been wanting to hunt out west with me for several years. I've encouraged them to initiate the point game, but they gasp when they see some of these prices. It's hard for a youngster/college student to fathom a cost such as this. Especially when viewing life through young eyes and considering things like planning a future, buying a home, starting a family.
They are true 'it's in-their-blood, hunt-to-eat, live for hunting season' type fellas, but have no choice but to spend at least the next few years just hunting whitetails, ducks, and trapping around home - listening to stories and only dreaming of the western game.

Even I myself have had to go from two or three trips a year to just one hunt (and maybe a scouting trip).
I know, it's easy; all you have to do is skip the steak house twice a month, drive a beater, pack your lunches - whatever it takes to get the tags...Easy for me. Tell these young guys they just can't go on dates, or they'll have to live with the folks, or catch rides everywhere with their buddies, just to hunt with uncle Festus. I bet they pick the girls over me every time and stick to the 'shoot the first horns you see' kind of PA hunting that they think is as good as it gets.
And try to get them to care about or become advocates for public land. They just don't get it because they've not experienced it. Hopefully they can before it's too late...

Kind of puts a kink in the rails of the 'run outa health before you run outa money' train of thought.

I guess it all stems from the desire within and the choices we make.
End of rant. Thanks for listening. See you in Wyoming next year - God willing and the creek don't rise.

Shouldn't see many people in the hills next year, at the current rate of complaining there won't be time for hunting at all.

Festus said:

...to hunt with uncle Festus. I bet they pick the girls over me every time...

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Sounds like uncle Festus needs to strap on a mini skirt and pony up some cash for beer and tag money for the nephews and I bet they come with you every time. ha! But all joking aside, all it takes is putting pen to paper and really showing these young bloods that out-of-state hunting is achievable even with these ridiculous tag prices on any budget. They might have to wait a few years to chase elk, but a pocket full of antelope tags might keep them coming back. One successful trip and they'll be saving and returning. The tag prices are not going to go down and they're only going go up with the demand, until tags start to fail to sell out, they'll remain north of the price we all want to pay. It's either budget or stay at home.

JLDemo said:

It's either budget or stay at home.

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That's the crux of it. Folks that make it a priority will be buying tags...

3855WIN said:

Good point. And the legislature has been starving out Game and fish, right?

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Correct, the legislature removed all general funds from the GF funding. This license fee hike WILL NOT offset the lost funds.

Do you all think that these tag prices and complex point strategies create a system where only people who are passionate about hunting hunt out of state, and those who see it purely as a means of getting food or just something they occasionally do in the fall stick to hunting in their home state? If so is this bad?

I'm genuinely curious. I met a lot of people in Montana who, due to the states incredibly cheap resident tags and generous seasons, put almost zero thought into hunting permits/tags and had a hard time even getting to Walmart to pick up their duck stamp before the season started. Needless to say none of these individuals ever turned in a app for a limited unit or even though about hunting out of state. This isn't to say they didn't hunt hard when they hunted, but it left me curious; if you were to institute a system where residents had to apply for a license in Feb- Mar like non-residents, even with 100% guaranteed draw, would you see a massive drop in participation.

I guess I'm just curious if there are that many people who view hunting as a truly important activity in their lives, or if we who do only make up maybe 10% or so of the population who hunts?

wllm1313 said:

Do you all think that these tag prices and complex point strategies create a system where only people who are passionate about hunting hunt out of state, and those who see it purely as a means of getting food or just something they occasionally do in the fall stick to hunting in their home state? If so is this bad?

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I do think that taking the time to understand the systems of different states takes a person who is dedicated to the experience, not so much the hunt. It is an absolute luxury to live in a state where most travel too to utilize vacation time. I know there's a lot of residents in Wyo that put in for the LQ units that require applications in the spring, to include myself. We have odds and season lengths on our side that allows to put the dream units as a 1st choice and if we don't draw, then most of us are A-Ok with hunting General units as a second or third choice. If everything were a draw, I believe that the participation wouldn't drop, people's mentality would remain the same as a freezer filler or a trophy chaser. It would take a little more effort, so some might drop out, but not enough to even discuss.

As for residents of western states hunting out-of-state, I can't speak for all but I do hunt outside of Wyo and throughly enjoy it. Although not as steep, I feel the pain of tag increases as I chase deer regularly in other states as well as hunt upland in multiple states yearly. Colorado and Nevada and eventually Alaska will always take my money with a smile on my face. I've hunted Kansas twice on a DIY, public land hunt and filled tags every time, but man those whitetail tags are rivals to elk tag prices elsewhere. I've thought about cashing in points in Iowa but haven't done enough research on public lands to be confident. I don't hunt big game out of state every year, simply can't swing it so it averages about every other year.

I hunt both in-state and out because I enjoy the experience, I would never stop hunting if I didn't fill tags, that's just apart of it. I'm not a wealthy person, I just budget and sacrifice the little things. Such as Busch Light over Odell's, sack lunches vs eating out and driving a vehicle without the bells and whistles vs the luxury rides. I'd like to think that a lot of us view the experience through hunting as a want just as much as a need, the 10%, as for the other 90%, they just haven't had the experience yet. To each their own in regards to hunting in and out of their home state, I've had far to much fun hunting and fishing to stay home and met some really incredible people along the way

I think with the lack of recruiting the young generation into hunting,all states are making a mistake.What do you think will happen to those western States that count on those NR licenses selling out.Within 10 to maybe 15 years your going to see a big drop in NR hunters.I don't know of any states that aren't seeing a drop yearly in junior hunters.God forbid the residents pay a little more.Being greedy now won't allow for alot of father/son hunts out west.So how are these kids going to know what their missing.I find it hilarious to hear a resident tell me to skip a couple of nice dinners with my wife so that will make up a $200 license increase.Meanwhile,ask a resident to throw another $20-$30 extra towards their license fees and most would go nuts.I really think alot of western States are making a huge mistake that will bite them in the butt.Lucky for me,I've done all the hunts I've really wanted.