Bi-partisan Effort to Improve Forest Management
- Thread starter BigHornRam
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BigHornRam
Well-known member
Changes are coming, no?
https://treesource.org/news/lands/wildfires-forest-restoration-society/#more-1540
BigHornRam
Well-known member
Another good article on the benefits of Forest management.
http://missoulian.com/news/local/fl...cle_25f73d9b-05fb-50fb-8eb9-ab5406a38b19.html
http://missoulian.com/news/local/fl...cle_25f73d9b-05fb-50fb-8eb9-ab5406a38b19.html
BigHornRam
Well-known member
Changes are coming, no?
http://missoulian.com/opinion/colum...cle_d2a59d64-9ad2-5b3b-99f9-2cea7bf36e2f.html
http://missoulian.com/opinion/colum...cle_d2a59d64-9ad2-5b3b-99f9-2cea7bf36e2f.html
RobG
Well-known member
The Cottonwood decision sure fired up the lawmakers (probably rightfully so). It apparently was a new angle. What was it that tipped the scales on this ruling?
BigHornRam
Well-known member
Changes are coming, no?
http://missoulian.com/news/state-an...cle_2f32242f-57f9-5ae5-9bb2-a409130ec867.html
http://missoulian.com/news/state-an...cle_2f32242f-57f9-5ae5-9bb2-a409130ec867.html
RobG
Well-known member
Yeah, right, we can count on this being helpful for wildlife.
The panel's chairman, Rep. Rob Bishop of Utah, called the GOP bill "the only solution on the table to bend the cost curve of fire suppression and prevent wildfires from becoming uncontrollable, life-threatening calamities."
The Rice Ridge fire area was heavily "managed." Those "devastating fires" of California were within city limits. You planning on thinning the boulevards? If you think this is about (or will help) wildfires you are being suckered. In the bigger picture, the amount of forest land that burned was pretty small as a long-term percentage and is about what you would expect with a forest that turns over every few hundred years.
BigHornRam
Well-known member
Rob,
The forest immediately around Seely Lake such as the cross country ski course were thinned. That and having a big lake on the other side is why they were able to defend the town from the Rice Ridge fire. Where the fire was able to burn out of control was in dense thickets of lynx "rabbitat". So much for the rabbitat.
So in this release by Senator Tester in 2013, are we being suckered as well?
https://www.tester.senate.gov/?p=press_release&id=3035
The forest immediately around Seely Lake such as the cross country ski course were thinned. That and having a big lake on the other side is why they were able to defend the town from the Rice Ridge fire. Where the fire was able to burn out of control was in dense thickets of lynx "rabbitat". So much for the rabbitat.
So in this release by Senator Tester in 2013, are we being suckered as well?
https://www.tester.senate.gov/?p=press_release&id=3035
BigHornRam
Well-known member
10 % of Lolo Forest burned in 1 year is not a small amount. 10 to 15 % of what burned being considered for salvage is a small amount.
http://missoulian.com/news/local/lo...cle_99d220f7-943d-5f48-8e94-c4589e981b2a.html
BuzzH
Well-known member
Maybe not.
How much of the wood is even worth salvaging? How much is within roadless MA's? How much would it cost to build roads to reach much of the burn? How much is within riparian areas? How unstable are the soils?
I'd have to see it before making unfounded declarations like you do.
huronmtns
Well-known member
This is spot on to determine proper environmental impact assessment. There is usually more to the issue than one or two people can perceive.
The Cottonwood decision is being used by the same litigation oriented groups to stop any project on the forest, regardless of impact or what it is. I'm glad to see Daines take this up and not blow it by being the same old same old that does nothing but talk. Even happier to see Tester on as well, having spoken to him about this issue in the past.
I'm all for adequate public processes and public involvement, but Cottonwood took the decision on programmatic consultation to the individual project level and as such, is a boon for the litigants and not for public land management. I doubt this bill is perfect, but it's start and so long as adults are helping MT's junior senator, it should be a good thing.
I'm all for adequate public processes and public involvement, but Cottonwood took the decision on programmatic consultation to the individual project level and as such, is a boon for the litigants and not for public land management. I doubt this bill is perfect, but it's start and so long as adults are helping MT's junior senator, it should be a good thing.
BigHornRam
Well-known member
Senate putting forward this bi-partisan proposal.
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2017/oct/19/forests-most-likely-to-burn-would-be-thinned-under/
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2017/oct/19/forests-most-likely-to-burn-would-be-thinned-under/
BigHornRam
Well-known member
Some of your questions are discussed in the article Buzz.
"Since the 160,000-acre Rice Ridge Fire was so close to Pyramid, Sanders said the mill is hopeful there will be a good deal of wood to salvage there.
“There are a lot of issues that can come together to shrink a project,” he said. “We think acreage-wise, it’s going to be a small percent, like 8,000 acres. Some of it burned so hot that it doesn’t have any value. They take out riparian, wilderness and roadless areas.”
That's 5% of the Rice Ridge Fire that will likely be considered for salvage. And of that 5% how much will be tied up in litigation ?
RobG
Well-known member
Immediately around Seeley? Geeze BHR, are you even familiar with the area that burned? Look at it on Google earth - section upon section of heavily roaded and heavily logged forest. They still couldn't put the fire out.
BigHornRam
Well-known member
I'm familiar with the Seely area Rob. Kind of hard to put out fires in dense overstocked regen. This article shows examples of thinned forest side by side with over stocked regen. Read it. This is the direction we are heading to on federal forests, like it or not.
http://www.theforestblog.com/stewardship/#more-684
RobG
Well-known member
"Dense overstocked regen," aka the overly dense crap that grows back after they "manage" it, but hasn't been there long enough to make it profitable to further "manage." Are you suggesting lawsuits prevented the management of this "regen?" I say it just wasn't profitable and AWR hasn't been wasting their time protecting heavily roaded second growth forest... maybe you have evidence to the contrary.
But truthfully, I actually expected to see a lot of regen with I looked at the arials, but the area looks like it has been thinned pretty well. It just shows that anything is going to burn during a drought.
I grew up in the Swan and don't mind logging, but back then a couple decades after logging the regrowth was more of a fire hazard than the original forest. Eventually it straightens itself out, but it takes a long time.
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BigHornRam
Well-known member
That dense crap is called rabbitat, Rob. It gets litigated all the time. When's the last time you went to Morrell Falls? Dense before the fire. Probably pretty bleak today.
Here's another good read for you Rob to help educate your stubborn mind.......
http://www.theforestblog.com/collaborate/#more-703
Here's another good read for you Rob to help educate your stubborn mind.......
http://www.theforestblog.com/collaborate/#more-703
RobG
Well-known member
Wow, now that you have termed it something real clever, and linked to a concept this "stubborn mind" supports, why don't you tell me which lawsuits prevented the proper management of this particular area? I really don't know one way or another, but you talk like you're an expert so show me the litigation... again, for this area.
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