NFL guy says he'll quit before standing for the flag

The contradiction I see is how people claim to live in the land of the free, while at the same time hollering from rooftops to fire NFL players for kneeling during the anthem? Tough to reconcile those two things, IMO.

Not that I agree with what they're doing either, I think there are better ways to get your voice heard and the problem solved. But I will still watch football when I feel like it and wont be boycotting NFL sponsors.

However, I also fully support those that like hollering from rooftops too. Again, that whole land of the free thing.
 
elkduds said:
This country was originated in protest by a group of protesters, our founding fathers. Together they decided that the first amendment to their new constitution would preserve and defend the fundamental right to dissent. That was in place, unaltered, for over 150 years before there was a national anthem (March 3, 1931) or pledge of allegiance (June 22, 1942). Both of which have been revised since then, to suit the fashion of the day. Every court in the nation has upheld the first amendment many times over. By any historical or legal measure, protest has a more patriotic standing in the history of the United States of America than any song, pledge or sports tradition.
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Well stated.
 
pabearhunter said:
Speaking your mind is what we fought for. There is a right time and place to do so.
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Yours and my opinion of when it's appropriate is just that, our opinion's. They are free to do as they wish. Even if the greater population disagrees with them.
I fail to see how using social pressure to silence a segment of the population will do anything but divide and eventually cause one side to resort to violence.
This is how oppressive governments create terrorist groups. Now we have the power to do it through social media.
 
I could care less about the NFL and who stands or does not stand for the National Anthem. How an NFL athlete participates does not make him any more or less an American IMO. I choose not to participate in the pledge or National Anthem as I think nationalism has more negatives than positives. Do I love my country? Absolutely. Do I think it's the best country on earth? In many ways yes, in other ways not so much. But our right to free speech and assembly elevates us in the world without a doubt.

EDIT: I crossed definitions of nationalism and patriotism in my head. Have at your patriotism or not, I could care less. Nationalism is a disease.
 
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Bunch of over-paid cry baby felons, that have no respect for anything, even the game itself! Let him quit!!! There is 50 guys waiting that will play the game and will respect the game, flag, troops and country!!!!
 
I think the NFL players have forgot they are employed by the team owners. If the team owners said as part of our policy we are standing for the national anthem you better stand.

It's really no different then if I told my employer that I modified my uniform because I don't want the American flag patch on the right shoulder. The likely results are I'm going to be wrote up for insubordination or not following policy, or be fired.

They are employees that is it. Follow the rules and policies your employer has set oryou go find a different job. I watched the first game of the season for the Kansas City Chiefs. I really don't care if they protest or not but I'm tired of hearing about it and seeing it during a game. I'm done with the NFL and have not missed it one bit.
 
BuzzH said:
The contradiction I see is how people claim to live in the land of the free, while at the same time hollering from rooftops to fire NFL players for kneeling during the anthem? Tough to reconcile those two things, IMO.

Not that I agree with what they're doing either, I think there are better ways to get your voice heard and the problem solved. But I will still watch football when I feel like it and wont be boycotting NFL sponsors.

However, I also fully support those that like hollering from rooftops too. Again, that whole land of the free thing.
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Different rooftops have different barkers. In the grand scheme some matter, some don't.

If one of these guys wants to leave the NFL, take Pat Tillmans place, more power to him. The claim of leaving the NFL goes about as far as the claim that folks with leave the U.S. when DJT gets elected.
 
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People who kneel or sit for the national anthem pose no threat to anyone's freedom. So I don't give a damn what they do. The NFL and its teams, however, get rich off of stadiums subsidized by taxpayers and receive millions from the Department of Defense (also funded by compulsory taxes) to inject politics into what should be mere entertainment. That's criminal, in my book. I've been boycotting the NFL long before it was the cool, politically correct thing to do.
 
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Anyone who is a service member or vet who is against what these players are doing has violated the oath they took. You swore to defend the constitution by saying your against them, you've violated that oath. Almost everyone in the states has forgotten what this protest was even about. This is about racial injustice and police brutality. This whole protest started before President Tiny Hands came into office, he has just exacerbated the whole situation. He has violated the constitution SO MANY times and now wants to do it again to punish the press.

Are the owners going to fire every visible minority in the NFL, Basketball and now Baseball? you'll only have hockey left.
 
What if the kneeling football player also used tape on his rifle muzzle?
 
I’m just sick of everything becoming politicized. I wish they players would have just quietly started donating their salaries to the ACLU instead of kneeling. Not that I have a problem with kneeling, I have have a problem with politics entering every corner of our lives.
 
I suppose I don't care too much if NFL players want to "protest" by sitting out the National Anthem. I do have a problem when people pontificate over it to the point we're making them out to be a bunch of Rosa Parks'. Rosa Parks actually had something to lose by not moving to the back of the bus.

Another common thing that gets thrown around is how protest is patriotic and this country was born out of protest. I don't disagree with that, but at the time of the revolution, protesters were also banding together in armed conflict against the Brittish Empire and laying down their lives for the freedom of future generations. I see the NFL players as being no different from the over paid, self-absorbed Hollywood elite who mouth off about political causes. Unlike Rosa Parks, MLK and the thousands that died of horrific wounds in the revolutionary war, these socially conscious, patriotic NFL players risk nothing.

Let them kneel. Their cause can be argued endlessly, but protest is pretty empty in reality. They are not courageous.

And I like hockey better than football anyway. ��
 
Or.... These men are employees of the specific team they play for. If their employer implements a rule in the workplace, obey it, or move on. Simple as that. mtmuley
 
This topic gets passed around a lot in my group of AD and Vet friends. Our exploits in defense of this country were and are to guarantee people to exercise that freedom. However, as my Grandma used to say, "Just because you CAN doesn't mean you SHOULD!". These folks are in an industry that is consumer driven so what they do and say directly effects the bottom line of the industry and in turn their own paychecks and employment. While I personally find it highly disrespectful to fail and show our flag respect, I would never tell someone they "can't" do it.......HOWEVER they should be fully prepared for, and NOT belly aching about, the consequences of those choices. I have personally chosen to turn my football attention to college and high school (have to admit I am a nut for HS ball). As for players saying they will quit the NFL over this....I suppose it shows some character to stand up for what they believe in but in the end...........
 

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Rainer said:
Anyone who is a service member or vet who is against what these players are doing has violated the oath they took. You swore to defend the constitution by saying your against them, you've violated that oath. Almost everyone in the states has forgotten what this protest was even about. This is about racial injustice and police brutality. This whole protest started before President Tiny Hands came into office, he has just exacerbated the whole situation. He has violated the constitution SO MANY times and now wants to do it again to punish the press.

Are the owners going to fire every visible minority in the NFL, Basketball and now Baseball? you'll only have hockey left.
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I can accept your ignorance of our laws since you aren't from this country but sadly you are guilty of the same ignorance that many Americans suffer from.

The First Amendment of our Constitution does not apply in this case
- The Constitution of the United States is a document that limits the powers of the federal government...it is not a public law, law that pertains to the people.

To quote many of our most liberal politicians, it is a list of negative rights for the government. The First Amendment only prevents the federal government from stopping the free speech of a citizen (among other things), but it has no authority to stop a private company from putting limits to the free speech of an employee. All companies set policies of conduct for their employees and most will fire an employee that says or does anything that makes the company look bad to their customers. To quote the Association of Corporate Counsel's website
...if an employee’s political expression interferes with his/her work, disrupts his/her co-workers, or infringes upon a business objective, the employer can take action consistent with its written policies and practices.
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And as for your really stupid remarks about veterans violating their oaths, that's just too dumb to address, especially in light of just how wrong you are about the First Amendment. And yes, I'm a veteran, I retired honorably and take real offense to some numbnuts that insults veterans with disingenuous rhetoric. Please educate yourself before you insult people like me with your phony concern for our oath.
 
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