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NFL guy says he'll quit before standing for the flag

Zach said:
Thanks for the laugh. Yes, those poor defenseless football players making millions need help defending their 1st amendment rights....

What their representation should be doing is protecting them from long term injuries. Instead they sign contracts with gear companies that pay the most out versus protect them the most from injury.
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No, they need help ensuring that Management and the Union live up to THEIR contract, policies, and MOU's...nothing to do with first amendment rights. The owners act as though they are incapable of coming to the table and negotiating this issue, just like a lot of other issues. They can, and should...or they can implement policy that isn't negotiated and roll the dice with the NLRB.

I've been involved with a lot of each...frankly, I'd rather negotiate like an adult. But, if Management wants to be stubborn, I can play that game too. The trouble is I don't play for second place and when things go the formal route with NLRB, there is a winner, and a loser.

However, what I WILL NOT negotiate is something that is already part of a formal contract...its already been negotiated, its already policy, and it needs to be followed. If its not followed, your ass is going to be in a sling...whether Management or the Union fails to honor it. I have no problem re-opening contracts and re-negotiating a contract, but needs to be done by the correct process.

As to the injuries and safety on the field, the Players Union is also responsible for the awareness, protocol, and policies regarding those issues too. Its a brutal, full contact sport, injuries are part of the job. One way to mitigate that is for the players to maximize profit for the assumed risk of serious and career ending injury. If that means signing contracts with gear companies to maximize employee profit to help off-set the injury risk, good for them.

Thank you for the laugh...hilarious.
 
Buzz.

Ultimate respect. You are reading this long. Yes, there is a contract. No, you cannot say anything that makes your employer look bad. The employee (footballer is on company time) cannot say anything that denigrates the employer (NFL ownership). Private time is OK.

Fire their ass!

I know you will not agree!
 
Joe Hulburt said:
If every NFL player or employee quit and there was never another NFL game the world would be a better place. A whole bunch of people might get up and go outside and live their own life instead of pretending to be part of some giant money sucking franchise. So yeah, I'm not impressed with professional sports in 2017. Good riddance.
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Spot on. My wish is that they all quit. Much better world! Same for hollywood
 
The protest is illegitimate, and it's based off of lies and liberal b.s. Propaganda if you will (fitting for a commie lover like Keapernick).

But that's fine, let these fellas do what they want, in about 30yrs they'll all be playing with crayons and have a nice case of cte (ie brain damage).

It's hard to hate the stupid for doing stupid things...they know not what they do...
 
bobbydean said:
Buzz.

Ultimate respect. You are reading this long. Yes, there is a contract. No, you cannot say anything that makes your employer look bad. The employee (footballer is on company time) cannot say anything that denigrates the employer (NFL ownership). Private time is OK.

Fire their ass!

I know you will not agree!
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Ultimate respect back, but no, I'm not reading anything wrong.

Its about policy, or lack-there-of in this case to justify a termination of an employee. In fact, the policy in place, from what I've read, says that players "should" stand for the anthem. No requirement to do so, no shall or must. SHOULD.

Put yourself at arbitration on this issue...as an arbitrator. What do you suppose will be one of the first questions they ask if someone is there claiming they were unjustly fired? Yep, what is the company policy on the XYZ thing that you fired for.

We are a country of laws, including labor laws.

Now, if the negotiated policy says that players MUST stand for the anthem and take a knee in defiance of the policy...I'm right there with you. Fire them if that's the appropriate action to take when they mess up, you'll get no push-back from me.

Its really not about whether I agree with you or not, its about what the contract and policy say and what will happen at a NLRB hearing as it pertains to the NLRA. My guess is that any owner that fires a player under the existing contract is going to pay, and pay big.

But, arbitration is risky...you're at the mercy of the arbitrators and labor law.

Which leads to why I avoid arbitration and try to sit down and work through these kinds of problems through negotiations. In this case, like most I've worked on, its not easy but achievable to work out a solution, and maybe even come up with a resolution...if the parties care to.

YMMV.
 
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mtmuley said:
Kaepernic is filing a grievance. Alleges collusion. mtmuley
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Yep, Myself, i know little of the fine print, you guys are doing a excellent job and really making this a good read, Thanks!. I hope Kap ends up having to pay all the Fee's.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/21035352/colin-kaepernick-filing-grievance-nfl-owners-collusion

If you're interested, I made a hit at the line of scrimmage during a Monday full go drill under the filming tower during the middle of my Junior year in College. Lower back, left side, i couldn't hardly get out of bed the next day and though i couldn't run, i said i'd play and did start against U of Indiana later that week. I was taken out almost immediately as it was obvious...and that i had refused from our Head Coach to "go with the trainer" and get, when he told me would be a "pain shot". Two weeks after the injury i felt back up to 100% but don't you know that through many's eyes including mine, i was no doubt the best of either side Linebacker on that Team and i still played almost the whole of each remaining game,yet they didn't "start" me the rest of the year. I was being punished for refusing the pain shot to my back when i didn't have a clue what was wrong with my back other than knowing that i was injured. Right now, sitting here at my office desk, i'm suffering constant pain that never goes away and it's centered exactly where it hurt after i stopped that fullback at the line of scrimmage that afternoon so long ago. Damage to my brain? I'd bet on it, i would. After that Junior Season, i went back home and went to work, never played another down though i was promised the Moon if i'd stay.. I was So,.. disenchanted with the game, felt let down that they didn't care or give a crap about me. They wanted a soldier ready to run up that hill. It's taken me a whole lifetime to finally say this, "Screw Football, wish i'd never played the game".
 
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uncle sage said:
Yep, Myself, i know little of the fine print, you guys are doing a excellent job and really making this a good read, Thanks!. I hope Kap ends up having to pay all the Fee's.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/21035352/colin-kaepernick-filing-grievance-nfl-owners-collusion

If you're interested, I made a hit at the line of scrimmage during a Monday full go drill under the filming tower during the middle of my Junior year in College. Lower back, left side, i couldn't hardly get out of bed the next day and though i couldn't run, i said i'd play and did start against U of Indiana later that week. I was taken out almost immediately as it was obvious...and that i had refused from our Head Coach to "go with the trainer" and get, when he told me would be a "pain shot". Two weeks after the injury i felt back up to 100% but don't you know that through many's eyes including mine, i was no doubt the best of either side Linebacker on that Team and i still played almost the whole of each remaining game,yet they didn't "start" me the rest of the year. I was being punished for refusing the pain shot to my back when i didn't have a clue what was wrong with my back other than knowing that i was injured. Right now, sitting here at my office desk, i'm suffering constant pain that never goes away and it's centered exactly where it hurt after i stopped that fullback at the line of scrimmage that afternoon so long ago. Damage to my brain? I'd bet on it, i would. After that Junior Season, i went back home and went to work, never played another down though i was promised the Moon if i'd stay.. I was So,.. disenchanted with the game, felt let down that they didn't care or give a crap about me. They wanted a soldier ready to run up that hill. It's taken me a whole lifetime to finally say this, "Screw Football, wish i'd never played the game".
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Uncle sage slightly off topic, can you explain to me, in your onion, how taking a pain shot is not partaking in the use of performance enhancing drugs?

They are used widely in the National Rugby League down under as well. In my humble opinion with a bad injury your body is telling you, with the pain, that it is at its limits (sure you maybe able to mentally block it out and continue but that level is different for everyone). How is that different from a steroid etc that increases your strength letting you unnaturally improve beyond your original natural limit?
 
AussieHunter said:
Uncle sage slightly off topic, can you explain to me, in your onion, how taking a pain shot is not partaking in the use of performance enhancing drugs?

They are used widely in the National Rugby League down under as well. In my humble opinion with a bad injury your body is telling you, with the pain, that it is at its limits (sure you maybe able to mentally block it out and continue but that level is different for everyone). How is that different from a steroid etc that increases your strength letting you unnaturally improve beyond your original natural limit?
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I believe that Big time College Football even back in the 70's was all about the Money, Huge money for the Colleges. Not to the players so much though i did later find that it could be had. I played for the "full Ride" and though not much of a student, had to study my tail off just to barely get passing grades, i learned plenty in my 3 years. Training Tables, like a team only smorgasbord after or before practice, back then were highly suspect to include steroids though i never knew for sure one way or the other. Far as the way i felt about PEDrugs, i didn't need or want them in any way. Drug free and corn fed from good genetics off the Ranch, i later in High School, 9-0 undefeated Team, i took in 4 seasons of a Summer job being 1 man on a 2 man crew, loading 424 alfalfa bales a rig, getting them tied down, off and on to the next one, for a trucker guy hauling for the local Hay Growers Assoc. That was Before squeeze loaders, we used long shank D handled hay hooks. With the Hot Delta Heat and 12-13 hr days hand loading those trucks, i was the guy stacking, I was already in what i had felt, absolute Top condition. Playing at 6-2, i ran my 4.7 40's, and weighted about 230 pounds all natural. I showed up to play in far better condition than the city guys with their gym built muscles. I agree with you though about ones body talking, and that's how i felt about it at the time when i either went with that trainer or not. I was NOT willing to take that pain shot just before Kickoff that game, we ended up Winning it 42-0, without knowing just what was so wrong. I was punished for my caution and discretion and back then, i had a really hard time processing those facts.

Yes, it is off topic and sorry to finally now air my bitch here about the game but with what is current and what was my experience in the game, the Coaches don't care about "the person" like they make on when recruiting, drafting, and signing you. They care about filling a hole with a body and if that body is hurt and can't play, it's on to the next body, and the next...all that talk of what they are going to do for you goes out the window quick and the next guy gets the big smiles and slaps on the back. It's about the Winning, the Team record, the Money.
 
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JWP58 said:
But that's fine, let these fellas do what they want, in about 30yrs they'll all be playing with crayons and have a nice case of cte (ie brain damage).

It's hard to hate the stupid for doing stupid things...they know not what they do...
Click to expand...

Wow, just wow.
 
uncle sage said:
I believe that Big time College Football even back in the 70's was all about the Money, Huge money for the Colleges. Not to the players so much though i did later find that it could be had. I played for the "full Ride" and though not much of a student, had to study my tail off just to barely get passing grades, i learned plenty in my 3 years. Training Tables, like a team only smorgasbord after or before practice, back then were highly suspect to include steroids though i never knew for sure one way or the other. Far as the way i felt about PEDrugs, i didn't need or want them in any way. Drug free and corn fed from good genetics off the Ranch, i later in High School, 9-0 undefeated Team, i took in 4 seasons of a Summer job being 1 man on a 2 man crew, loading 424 alfalfa bales a rig, getting them tied down, off and on to the next one, for a trucker guy hauling for the local Hay Growers Assoc. That was Before squeeze loaders, we used long shank D handled hay hooks. With the Hot Delta Heat and 12-13 hr days hand loading those trucks, i was the guy stacking, I was already in what i had felt, absolute Top condition. Playing at 6-2, i ran my 4.7 40's, and weighted about 230 pounds all natural. I showed up to play in far better condition than the city guys with their gym built muscles. I agree with you though about ones body talking, and that's how i felt about it at the time when i either went with that trainer or not. I was NOT willing to take that pain shot just before Kickoff that game, we ended up Winning it 42-0, without knowing just what was so wrong. I was punished for my caution and discretion and back then, i had a really hard time processing those facts.

Yes, it is off topic and sorry to finally now air my bitch here about the game but with what is current and what was my experience in the game, the Coaches don't care about "the person" like they make on when recruiting, drafting, and signing you. They care about filling a hole with a body and if that body is hurt and can't play, it's on to the next body, and the next...all that talk of what they are going to do for you goes out the window quick and the next guy gets the big smiles and slaps on the back. It's about the Winning, the Team record, the Money.
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Sounds like you had the right mind set. Just that mind set isn't right for the attitude that is all persuasive in pro football, likely all round the world.

Good on you. IMHO money ruins good sport but that is just me and that is part of the reason I began hunting; just me against my limits and the wild.
 
Some very, very good dialogue on this subject. Personally, as i was raised, i try to treat everyone equal. As the Bible says, paraphrased, " do unto others as you would have them do unto you". Many people try to live it, especially in this country that was founded on biblical principles, many don't. Everybody categorizes people in some way. As in, tall,short,fat, skinny,big ears,big nose, rich, poor, white,black etc. In every cross section of people, of life, there is oppression, profiling, bullying,stereotyping. And guess what, it aint a gonna stop. You can gripe about it or you can be a catalyst to make it better. But when a specific group of people can take center stage and blind us to all the other oppression, i take issue. That, in of itself, is the worst kind of discrimination. When you create divisiveness in the greatest country in the world, i take issue...yes, you politicians too. Some have said that so what, its just the Anthem. I say, it is a conveying of our identity...past,present, and future, our belief system and sacrafices to maintain and preserve the good of people. At every Olympics, every country has a national Anthem. It identifies them, who they are, the accomplishments and sacrafices made by them, the athletes, as they represent the country of their origin. Maybe, if you take a pulse of those athletes, you would find an overflowing amount of pride in their country. You mighty men chasing around a funny shaped ball, I said PRIDE. I would ask these men, who dont want to honor our country, if they have pride in their teammates, their team, their wives, their kids, their city, their county.....because you cannot have one without the other. This country is our foundation, if you live in it, you stand on it. If you want to take a sledgehammer to your foundation, you are tearing down your own house. So, we can be a pessimist about this great country and keep tearing at it, or we can be an optimist and keep working to make it better. Its all our choice to make.
 
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