Looks like Wyoming is gonna pass a new law for real sportsman

Millsworks · Aug 31, 2017

It appears Wyoming will soon make it against the law to scout out trophy game and then sell the location to would be hunters or guides.
It's about time this gets the attention it needs to at least be drastically slowed down and hopefully frowned upon.
If you want to give a person some help ,that's great. But ,to profit from the location of a trophy big game animal and hence make the hunting of trophy animals even more unattainable by the average guy is a terrible dis service to sportsman.

Gr8bawana · Aug 31, 2017

That's good news. I hope that will include guides guides not being able to baby sit big bucks and bulls all summer long until their paying client comes along. Kind of like the guide bambistew ran into in AK trying to keep them out of the drainage they got their ram in?

406LIFE · Aug 31, 2017

Have a link?

At first look I like the idea of this. Not sure how it will impact "professional" hunters or the like, but if it evens the playing field I am for it.

u1299 · Aug 31, 2017

Don't know how you'd enforce it but anything to piss off or screw an outfitter I'm all for all the time. 4 wheelers and outfitters are 2 things the world needs less of. Sorry for the rant guess I got a bit off track.

BuzzH · Aug 31, 2017

406LIFE said:
Have a link?

At first look I like the idea of this. Not sure how it will impact "professional" hunters or the like, but if it evens the playing field I am for it.

http://www.kcwy13.com/content/news/Selling-the-Coorinates--442271353.html

This has become a problem in the last couple years, mainly by a guy from Utah that owns another hunting board. He scouts a lot in the Greys River area and sells maps with photos of the deer, coordinates, recommended ways to kill the buck etc. Price is determined by the size of the deer he provides the service for. He also is providing pictures, which he takes on NF lands and that requires a permit (which he doesn't have).

I was at the TRW interim meeting in Lander on Tuesday where this was heard.

There was NO testimony given to oppose the proposed legislation moving to the next session. WYBHA, along with Muley Fanatics and several other sportsmen spoke in favor of moving the bill to the upcoming session based on the ethical side of when is enough advantage enough. There was nearly unanimous agreement within the senate and house TRW committee.

Soooo, the TRW committee will introduce the bill this session and I expect it will pass pretty easily.

This will not impact licensed outfitters from selling coordinates etc. if they choose, but not sure why they would charge for coordinates, when they can charge a whole lot more for the entire hunt.

Anyway, I think its solid legislation to keep the playing field on the level for all hunters and keep things more fair for the wildlife as well.

406LIFE · Aug 31, 2017

BuzzH said:
This will not impact licensed outfitters from selling coordinates etc. if they choose, but not sure why they would charge for coordinates, when they can charge a whole lot more for the entire hunt..

Thanks Buzz, this was my thought too. Maybe its just easier to scout out a dozen elk and then sell for $1000 instead of taking 3 guys out at $4K a piece and do all that work?

JM77 · Aug 31, 2017

Not sure if I share Buzz's optimism that this will pass "pretty easily", but I do think it has a good chance even in this upcoming Budget session which requires 2/3 majority for bills, other than budget, to be heard.

It is the right thing to do, but so is preventing more set-aside antelope licenses, which we are having a battle stopping.

TheTone · Aug 31, 2017

Hehe, the "founder" law. Wonder what the chance is some of these scouts will just become employed as guides now by outfitters? Tough to enforce, but sounds like a good thing for the resource.

JosephBrown · Aug 31, 2017

I wonder how they'll enforce it

Keeptrying · Aug 31, 2017

TheTone said:
Hehe, the "founder" law. Wonder what the chance is some of these scouts will just become employed as guides now by outfitters? Tough to enforce, but sounds like a good thing for the resource.

I thought founder was going to work for SNS this season? I don't spend much time there, but I remember that being a conversation.

Zach · Aug 31, 2017

BuzzH said:
http://www.kcwy13.com/content/news/Selling-the-Coorinates--442271353.html

What is "advanced photography equipment"? Is it the commercial use of the photographs that makes it illegal without permit, much like Randy needs for the TV program?

Did I miss it, or is there an actual link to the bill?

General questions to the collective, Buzz just happened to post the link.

TheTone · Aug 31, 2017

Keeptrying said:
I thought founder was going to work for SNS this season? I don't spend much time there, but I remember that being a conversation.

Honestly I don't keep track of all the goings on at MM, a little too much UT for my taste

VikingsGuy · Aug 31, 2017

Just checked the pending bills per the legislature site. There was a bill in Feb to regulate such "consultive services" as "outfitting", but that failed in the house. Don't see anything pending on the topic now, but not sure what type of lag from talk/signalling to actual committee draft to web published bill there is in WY.

BuzzH · Aug 31, 2017

VikingsGuy said:
Just checked the pending bills per the legislature site. There was a bill in Feb to regulate such "consultive services" as "outfitting", but that failed in the house. Don't see anything pending on the topic now, but not sure what type of lag from talk/signalling to actual committee draft to web published bill there is in WY.

The bill was advanced by the TRW interim committee Tuesday in Lander, I was there along with JM77. LSO made sure the language was correct and TRW will submit the legislation at the upcoming session.

For the record, a conviction would be considered a "high misdemeanor" with up to a 10K fine and a year in the pen.

BuzzH · Aug 31, 2017

Zach said:
What is "advanced photography equipment"? Is it the commercial use of the photographs that makes it illegal without permit, much like Randy needs for the TV program?

Did I miss it, or is there an actual link to the bill?

General questions to the collective, Buzz just happened to post the link.

Zach, 2 separate issues.

The FS already requires a permit to film for commercial use.

This would be a new state law to prohibit the sale of coordinates, maps, etc. to aid another hunter in the killing of big-game (cliff notes version). I have a copy of the bill right in front of me, but I'm not going to type it all.

VikingsGuy · Aug 31, 2017

I have no objection to the goal of the proposed bill, seems like a good thing to have. I hope they get the language right after bouncing around in committee, as the subtle distinctions being drawn could easily sweep in unintended consequences - think onX maps.

BuzzH · Aug 31, 2017

VikingsGuy said:
I have no objection to the goal of the proposed bill, seems like a good thing to have. I hope they get the language right after bouncing around in committee, as the subtle distinctions being drawn could easily sweep in unintended consequences - think onX maps.

OnX maps doesn't sell information to any previously scouted big or trophy game for purpose of aiding the hunter in the taking of the big or trophy game do they?

VikingsGuy · Aug 31, 2017

BuzzH said:
OnX maps doesn't sell information to any previously scouted big or trophy game for purpose of aiding the hunter in the taking of the big or trophy game do they?

No, and that is not my point. My point is that well intentioned legislation can often have minor drafting errors or ambiguities that leads to outcomes broader or different from what the proponents intended. Simple placement of commas can make or break laws, and in fact do (see numerous cases and articles about the "oxford comma" by way of example).

For example, the Feb bill that failed had this definition, "providing to a hunter specified geographic locations defined by a universal coordinate system for the purpose of
locating any specific previously scouted big or trophy game animals." It all hinges on the word "specific". If that word gets dropped in committee, on purpose or in error (both happen), or if a court takes a broad view of an otherwise straight forward word, "specific" (which also happens), this could creep into activities you are not intending.

This observation is not for or against this bill you support, just a general concern I have as we continue to regulate almost every conceivable human activity.

MTGomer · Aug 31, 2017

The Doyle Moss Ethics Adjustment Act

cgarner · Aug 31, 2017

VikingsGuy said:
No, and that is not my point. My point is that well intentioned legislation can often have minor drafting errors or ambiguities that leads to outcomes broader or different from what the proponents intended. Simple placement of commas can make or break laws, and in fact do (see numerous cases and articles about the "oxford comma" by way of example).

For example, the Feb bill that failed had this definition, "providing to a hunter specified geographic locations defined by a universal coordinate system for the purpose of
locating any specific previously scouted big or trophy game animals." It all hinges on the word "specific". If that word gets dropped in committee, on purpose or in error (both happen), or if a court takes a broad view of an otherwise straight forward word, "specific" (which also happens), this could creep into activities you are not intending.

This observation is not for or against this bill you support, just a general concern I have as we continue to regulate almost every conceivable human activity.

Seems like a non issue to me as long as a company or person aren't providing gps coordinates to animals.

Looks like Wyoming is gonna pass a new law for real sportsman

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