Zinke under fire from public lands advocates

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mfb99

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Good write up in The Hill on the continued fight against Zinke (The poser).

http://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/347158-zinke-under-fire-from-public-lands-advocates

Just a reminder, Zinke has already made a recommendation to reduce the size of Bears Ears National Park.

Was this recommendation for us, the users of OUR Public Land? No it was for the Oil and Gas industry, the mineral extraction industry and large scale ranching.

If you have not called your Congressional leaders - do so. If you have not joined Backcountry Hunters and Anglers do so. If you have not joined REI or given money to a western conservation organization - do so.

I urge folks to not rationalize what Zinke and his DC hacks are doing. They are not benevolent, their goal is to put money in the pocket of CEO's and shareholders of companies that exploit our Public Lands. All the noise they make about "Freedom", "States Rights", "Public Input" is nothing more than a way to manipulate YOUR opinion into carrying water for the suits in corporate boardrooms.

Don't do it........

Cheers,

Mark
 
Just becuzzz,

Bears Ear needs to be reduced. 13 sites hold historic artifact sites of interest (Agree National Monument worthy and abides by the Antiquities Act) and that is according to the tribal tri-council's own content. Not 1.4 MILLION Acres... ;)
This is under the most desperate calls over years of indulging the prior administration... But hey, Obama found it of such incredible value that he declared it a National Monument the last day of office. Hmmm... 1.4 MILLION ACRES.

Let it rip!

mfb99 said:
Good write up in The Hill on the continued fight against Zinke (The poser).

http://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/347158-zinke-under-fire-from-public-lands-advocates

Just a reminder, Zinke has already made a recommendation to reduce the size of Bears Ears National Park.

Was this recommendation for us, the users of OUR Public Land? No it was for the Oil and Gas industry, the mineral extraction industry and large scale ranching.

If you have not called your Congressional leaders - do so. If you have not joined Backcountry Hunters and Anglers do so. If you have not joined REI or given money to a western conservation organization - do so.

I urge folks to not rationalize what Zinke and his DC hacks are doing. They are not benevolent, their goal is to put money in the pocket of CEO's and shareholders of companies that exploit our Public Lands. All the noise they make about "Freedom", "States Rights", "Public Input" is nothing more than a way to manipulate YOUR opinion into carrying water for the suits in corporate boardrooms.

Don't do it........

Cheers,

Mark
Click to expand...
 
Sytes said:
Just becuzzz,

Bears Ear needs to be reduced. 13 sites hold historic artifact sites of interest (Agree National Monument worthy and abides by the Antiquities Act) and that is according to the tribal tri-council's own content. Not 1.4 MILLION Acres... ;)
This is under the most desperate calls over years of indulging the prior administration... But hey, Obama found it of such incredible value that he declared it a National Monument the last day of office. Hmmm... 1.4 MILLION ACRES.

Let it rip!
Click to expand...

The amount of land Obama made a Monument, in many ways, followed what Rob Bishop had in his poisoned Public Lands Initiative. IF it was good enough for Rob Bishop under his bill, why not now?

According to the inter-tribal council, there are over 100,000 historic sites in Bear's Ears. Which ones don't deserve protection in order to advance corporate profit?

The Bears Ear campaign is over 70 years old, going back to FDR's time. Why hasn't congress, for 70 years, worked to pass a bill that would have protected it? Why did Obama wait until Bishop's bill clearly had no chance to pass before making the decision? Because he know it wouldn't be protected unless he used the authority given to him by congress to protect it, and I would add, at a smaller scale than what FDR's administration was looking at.

But no fear, the fearless Secretary of Interior did his homework early, and after being told by K street lobbyists, he's on vacation in Greece rather than finish the review of the other monuments.


And lest you think I'm being partisan Charles, I'm not.

I just don't like Zinke as a person, based on watching his career closely, and attempting to work w/ him in the past. ;)
 
Ben Lamb said:
According to the inter-tribal council, there are over 100,000 historic sites in Bear's Ears. Which ones don't deserve protection in order to advance corporate profit?
Click to expand...

100K sites per the inter-tribal council. I'm sure they are neutral and science based group. Ben you can answer these questions.

1) Can you show the science or research behind that number?
2) Are you counting every arrow head and coprolite?

Zinke is correct to send the monument back to congress to determine what is worthy of protection.

p.s My pic Newspaper Rock is #1. 99,999 to go. Name em off!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
noharleyyet said:
How on earth could anyone who reads here possibly question your impartiality. ...tic
Click to expand...

:D

I am a blue-dog democrat, to be sure.There's a difference between electoral politics, and policy though. In the realm of policy, I don't claim one party is better than the other unless the data shows it to be so. I've been registered as a Republican when I lived in Wyoming, and I vote for the person before the party for the most part. I partner with Republican legislators often to get good things done. A recent series of examples can be seen in the work sportsmen did with GOPers in the Montana session where we were able to increase block management funding and establish a new conservation program to fight invasive weeds that are harming wildlife habitats.

But truly, with Zinke, it's a personal beef. Because Ryan Zinke thinks of himself first.

Like this: http://westernvaluesproject.org/sec...gnores-western-voices-with-sage-grouse-order/

Or even worse - the dude doesn't seem to know which end of a stetson goes where.
 
dukes_daddy said:
100K sites per the inter-tribal council. I'm sure they are neutral and science based group. Ben you can answer these questions.

1) Can you show the science or research behind that number?
2) Are you counting every arrow head and coprolite?

Zinke is correct to send the monument back to congress to determine what is worthy of protection.

p.s My pic Newspaper Rock is #1. 99,999 to go. Name em off!
Click to expand...

Why don't you tell me which ones aren't worthy? I understand your view that Zinke is right in asking the same people who have punted for 70 years to look at it and find a solution that fits in better with industry's wishes, rather than what Tribes want. Totally get that.

I disagree. I doubt we'll ever meet in the middle here.
 
Who should we believe? The Utards who want to own/sell all the public lands within their state boundaries, and do their best to drive the national agenda to achieve same? Or the natives and other US citizen landowners who are trying to keep public lands in public hands?
[video=youtube;1yuc4BI5NWU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yuc4BI5NWU[/video]
 
Ben Lamb said:
Why don't you tell me which ones aren't worthy? I understand your view that Zinke is right in asking the same people who have punted for 70 years to look at it and find a solution that fits in better with industry's wishes, rather than what Tribes want. Totally get that.

I disagree. I doubt we'll ever meet in the middle here.
Click to expand...

You can't which shows the entire basis for painting 1.4M acres as monument was Obama overreach. You feel the monument is valid so demonstrate your case.
 
Ben, feel free to count the listed, "Historical Sites" on the BLM map of Bears Ears...
I don't need to share this with you as am sure you are well aware there are not 100,000 different locations within Bears Ears though to share with others, there are MANY dig sites within each noted archaeological site, AKA "Historical Site". Wait... I get it! You believe because there is a dig 50 yards from the other, that should count for another 100,000 acres... :hump: ;)

Antiquities Act:
16 USC 431-433
Sec. 2. That the President of the United States is hereby authorized, in his discretion, to declare by public proclamation historic landmarks, historic and prehistoric structures, and other objects of historic or scientific interest that are situated upon the lands owned or controlled by the Government of the United States to be national monuments, and may reserve as a part thereof parcels of land, the limits of which in all cases shall be confined to the smallest area compatible with proper care and management of the objects to be protected...
Click to expand...

benm_map.JPG

https://www.blm.gov/sites/blm.gov/files/UT_BearsEars_NM.pdf

Historic and scientific purpose does not include fun hiking, rock climbing, skipping rocks across water, etc... The Antiquities Act is for the IMMEDIATE preservation of historic and scientific lands that are in jeopardy of loss - beyond the time Congress may act to preserve...

Oh yes... :) Thanks for the chuckle...
 
Charles,

respectfully, I disagree with your interpretation of the Antiquities Act, as has every president since Theodore Roosevelt, except for the asterisk.

Troy,

Hope you have a great day. I'm done arguing with you. We're just going to end up talking past each other, and you seem like too nice of a guy to get in to more internet fights with.
 
Ben Lamb said:
Charles,

respectfully, I disagree with your interpretation of the Antiquities Act, as has every president since Theodore Roosevelt, except for the asterisk.
Click to expand...

I was good with the agree to disagree position, though the extra push for "as has every President since Teddy".... Teddy just for you, Ben ;)

Since your fishing, I'll bite though check your drag 'cause y'er line is a zzzzzingin'...

Your partisan side is strong... the deep... (and it is deep) blue seeps through your concealed 5.11 brand plain clothes. :D

We'll start with this;
edited: Working on it... :) big bite... watch out! :)

BTW, I value/enjoy our respectful disagreements.
 
Last edited:
Ben Lamb said:
Charles,

respectfully, I disagree with your interpretation of the Antiquities Act, as has every president since Theodore Roosevelt, except for the asterisk.

Troy,

Hope you have a great day. I'm done arguing with you. We're just going to end up talking past each other, and you seem like too nice of a guy to get in to more internet fights with.
Click to expand...

As are you Ben. Best to agree to disagree. Pouring over maps tonight and past hunting notes. My boy comes home from Dallas next week and we are going elk hunting September 1-6. Important stuff not politics. God bless. Troy
 
Seems the edit function dropped from my last post so - consider this the Marlin hammering your bait, Ben. :)
We'll give this one the first bite...

In 1911, William Taft had George Merrill review Theodore Roosevelt's designation of the Petrified Forest National Monument. Merrill came back with the position that it should be significantly scaled back as it holds the integrity of the Petrified Forest within a much smaller reservation fitting with the basis of the Antiquities Act. Taft reduced the size from TR's 61,000 Acres to 26,000 Acres.
 
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