Point Systems

Keeptrying · Jul 28, 2017

There are a whole lot of quality hunts to be had across the west for a couple points. From my point of view people are so tied up in hunting the units that produce trophy animals they lose track of what hunting really is.

Buy a couple points. Go hunt. Experience Western big game hunting for what it truly is and don't get hung up on any particular unit. So many opportunities out there.

AggieOutlaw · Jul 28, 2017

I like the pyramid scheme analogy. I'll have to think about that.

I think that eventually the point systems reach an equilibrium which offers no advantage over states like NM that have a random draw. All they did was give advantage to those who got in on the first generation. Hunters who lobby for them seem to be selfish and shortsighted.

ChrisC · Jul 28, 2017

Keeptrying said:
There are a whole lot of quality hunts to be had across the west for a couple points. From my point of view people are so tied up in hunting the units that produce trophy animals they lose track of what hunting really is.

Buy a couple points. Go hunt. Experience Western big game hunting for what it truly is and don't get hung up on any particular unit. So many opportunities out there.

I am speaking to this solely from a newbie perspective that is currently going through the Wyoming pronghorn process. I don't know anything about Wyoming "trophy" units as it relates to size of the antelope, but it's unfortunate that it seems you need to get into this point systems to get a unit there that has "trophy" public land; that is, a large quantity of accessible public land. For the easy to draw units, it's largely checkerboard or private.

Flatrock · Jul 28, 2017

ChrisC said:
I am speaking to this solely from a newbie perspective that is currently going through the Wyoming pronghorn process. I don't know anything about Wyoming "trophy" units as it relates to size of the antelope, but it's unfortunate that it seems you need to get into this point systems to get a unit there that has "trophy" public land; that is, a large quantity of accessible public land. For the easy to draw units, it's largely checkerboard or private.

Everybody likes to badmouth the hell out of the point systems but don't believe all the negativity. I drew a 2nd choice antelope tag in Wyoming. I was just adding up all the public land that I have to hunt and it is over 90,000 acres of ACCESSIBLE public. And that's in a unit the Game and Fish says has difficult access. If 90,000 acres isn't enough land to hunt to hunt for somebody, then I just flat out feel sorry for them. Don't feel like you can't have a good hunt unless you have max points.

And I love all the hype about the glory units. Makes other units much easier to draw that aren't that much less quality of a hunt.

In my opinion, Wyoming and Colorado are absolutely worth it to buy points. There are tons of options for elk in Colorado with 0-2 points. Same for Wyoming antelope.

Gr8bawana · Jul 28, 2017

Keeptrying said:
There are a whole lot of quality hunts to be had across the west for a couple points. From my point of view people are so tied up in hunting the units that produce trophy animals they lose track of what hunting really is.

Buy a couple points. Go hunt. Experience Western big game hunting for what it truly is and don't get hung up on any particular unit. So many opportunities out there.

^^^This^^^

ChrisC · Jul 28, 2017

Flatrock said:
Everybody likes to badmouth the hell out of the point systems but don't believe all the negativity. I drew a 2nd choice antelope tag in Wyoming. I was just adding up all the public land that I have to hunt and it is over 90,000 acres of ACCESSIBLE public. And that's in a unit the Game and Fish says has difficult access. If 90,000 acres isn't enough land to hunt to hunt for somebody, then I just flat out feel sorry for them. Don't feel like you can't have a good hunt unless you have max points.

And I love all the hype about the glory units. Makes other units much easier to draw that aren't that much less quality of a hunt.

In my opinion, Wyoming and Colorado are absolutely worth it to buy points. There are tons of options for elk in Colorado with 0-2 points. Same for Wyoming antelope.

Maybe the space just seems slim because I'm comparing it to other units that are endlessly public. Limited access in Wyoming still represents more public land than ill find here in MA.

LopeHunter · Jul 28, 2017

Flatrock said:
Everybody likes to badmouth the hell out of the point systems but don't believe all the negativity. I drew a 2nd choice antelope tag in Wyoming. I was just adding up all the public land that I have to hunt and it is over 90,000 acres of ACCESSIBLE public. And that's in a unit the Game and Fish says has difficult access. If 90,000 acres isn't enough land to hunt to hunt for somebody, then I just flat out feel sorry for them. Don't feel like you can't have a good hunt unless you have max points.

And I love all the hype about the glory units. Makes other units much easier to draw that aren't that much less quality of a hunt.

In my opinion, Wyoming and Colorado are absolutely worth it to buy points. There are tons of options for elk in Colorado with 0-2 points. Same for Wyoming antelope.

The great reveal is easy by merely looking at harvest rates for the units with significant private land. If the harvest rates are relatively low then either the most of the public land is not good habitat for that species, significant acreage of the public land is landlocked or after a couple of shots on public land tracts the pronghorn flee to private land were are not hassled for the rest of the season. There are so many very good units in WY for pronghorn where you can see several nice bucks in one morning that the mediocre WY units that are treated as crappy would still be near the top for units in CO and MT. Do check the harvest stats, though.

Keeptrying · Jul 28, 2017

That is assuming people are being honest when they reply to the harvest survey.

I thing for most people Onxmaps and some decent boots will translate into success. Our second attempt at big game hunting was antelope here in South Dakota. First day the game warden told us all the road hunters had driven all the antelope out of the area. A mile from the road was a hidden valley full of goats that hadn't been disturbed and we're plenty satisfied sitting right where they were. I'm guessing a bunch of tags went unfilled in that area. To be honest, ours went unfilled, but that is because we were pretty clueless and made some stupid mistakes. We will hunt that area again this Fall. They won't be so lucky this time.

hauntedbywaters · Aug 3, 2017

So, after reading this, and many other threads, it seems the more I read the more confused I get.

For the most part, I understand how all the different systems work. But as a non-resident just starting to plan my first western DIY hunt(s), I'm having a hard time figuring out where to start.

Are there any states where it is worth it for for someone with zero points to start trying to accumulate points? Would there be any decent opportunities without waiting 10+ years? Obviously there are a handful of OTC options out there that I could hunt while earning points elsewhere, but would I just be pissing into the wind?

I would definitely like to eventually experience chasing different species in different states, as well as be able to bring my kids once they are old enough. I don't care about getting into the super-primo areas that take a lifetime, just something that might be a little better than a general or OTC tag, eventually.

jvanhoy · Aug 3, 2017

hauntedbywaters said:
So, after reading this, and many other threads, it seems the more I read the more confused I get.

For the most part, I understand how all the different systems work. But as a non-resident just starting to plan my first western DIY hunt(s), I'm having a hard time figuring out where to start.

Are there any states where it is worth it for for someone with zero points to start trying to accumulate points? Would there be any decent opportunities without waiting 10+ years? Obviously there are a handful of OTC options out there that I could hunt while earning points elsewhere, but would I just be pissing into the wind?

I would definitely like to eventually experience chasing different species in different states, as well as be able to bring my kids once they are old enough. I don't care about getting into the super-primo areas that take a lifetime, just something that might be a little better than a general or OTC tag, eventually.

Like keeptrying said there is a lot of good hunts for just a few points. I buy points in CO and WY but will never have more than 2 or 3 before I cash those bad boys in. Lots of good otc hunts in CO also. You just have to hunt a little harder and smarter on the OTC units. It may take a few trips to learn them but it can be done.

brymoore · Aug 3, 2017

I'd like to find the individual who suggested the whole bonus/preference point systems and kick him in the balls! The only way to give an advantage to one individual is to disadvantage another. In most cases, this means the beginning, youth hunters. There is income discrimination due to the costs of points (hello WY!). The whole concept is as Unamerican as a May Day parade.

I prefer equal opportunity, equal access.

hauntedbywaters · Aug 3, 2017

That is more or less what I was thinking. Thanks for the reply.

jvanhoy said:
Like keeptrying said there is a lot of good hunts for just a few points. I buy points in CO and WY but will never have more than 2 or 3 before I cash those bad boys in. Lots of good otc hunts in CO also. You just have to hunt a little harder and smarter on the OTC units. It may take a few trips to learn them but it can be done.

wytex · Aug 3, 2017

In Wyoming you at least have a chance at drawing a random tag for every species with no PP.

icebreaker12 · Aug 3, 2017

wytex said:
In Wyoming you at least have a chance at drawing a random tag for every species with no PP.

You at least have a chance if you do a bonus point system too. But, your chances go up every year you don't draw.

Regardless, I don't see the legislature ever addressing this anyway.

vanish · Aug 3, 2017

hauntedbywaters said:
Are there any states where it is worth it for for someone with zero points to start trying to accumulate points? Would there be any decent opportunities without waiting 10+ years?

Check out my journal link in my signature. Only one of those 10 or so hunts was more than a 1 point draw ( the late elk hunt ).

hauntedbywaters · Aug 3, 2017

Man, that was awesome to read, thanks for pointing me to it, and for giving me hope for our future adventures. Coming from Florida, we obviously won't be able to hunt all the seasons you can, but if we can get one quality week of hunting out west every year, we will be thrilled. Good luck to y'all in the upcoming season!

vanish said:
Check out my journal link in my signature. Only one of those 10 or so hunts was more than a 1 point draw ( the late elk hunt ).

Grundy53 · Aug 3, 2017

I think Idaho has the best point system...

Steelhead · Aug 4, 2017

I would be happily drawing hunts that take a point or two...however in I'm with a handful of people who have "some" points and are destined to wait and cash em in for that "one great (hopefully) hunt" sometime in the next 10ish years :/

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