HSi-ESi
Well-known member
I'm curious as to why only the 'Yellowstone' grizzlies were delisted? Won't that get us into the genetic connectivity arguments that were used with the wolf de-listing?
Grizzly Bears are off the Protected List
- Thread starter JMG
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icebreaker12
Active member
There was an attempt to delist the GYE grizzly before. The USFWS felt they were able to adequately address (through research) the diet and genetic concerns that overruled the delisting last time.
Grizz in the lower 48 have separate Distinct Population Segments, and as such, can be delisted this way. The Yellowstone DPS has been the first one ready to move forward, but litigation and some cracks that didn't get covered re: white bark pine sent the previous two decisions back for more work. I am hopeful that this one sticks, as it should be less controversial than previous plans (common exception being some of the groups who only want ESA status for the bear). Simply put, it's the GYE's time as they have the most science completed for the decision.
Next will be the NCDE population as that team gets ready to push for delisting based on their very good science.
We shouldn't have the genetic connectivity issues as we did with wolves, as there is already plenty of evidence of interconnection between the NCDE & GYE. But, we'll see.
Zach
Well-known member
Gotta give the devil his due...
lmao,your acting like Obama was pro- hunter.Lefties never cease to amaze me.Would have been fun hunting them with stones and Spears after our guns would have been taken.Let's all take a minute to thank the Lord ,that Hillary is unelectable,and we have a pro 2nd amendment potus
AvidIndoorsman
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Come on... the whole they are taking our guns crap is sooo played out after 8 years of a dem in office and with them controlling the senate for a huge portion of the time the only thing that happened of any significance was a run on 22lr because people are ridiculous.
There is an amendment to the constitution protecting owners and there are over 300 million firearms in the county guns aren't going anywhere ever.
HSi-ESi
Well-known member
Thanks for the info - I'm sure the process will drag on a bit - but we'll be able to apply some of the knowledge over to NCDE when we get to that point.
Irrelevant
Well-known member
How's the lead flavored NRA Koolaid taste? In 8 years Obama did nothing to "take away" my guns. The only thing that happened is that a bunch of scardy cats paniced and all tried to buy a lifetime's supply of .22 ammo at the same time. Guns have the 2nd amendment to the constitution... changing the constitution requires a TON of people to agree to something. We currently can't get people to agree with each other within each party let alone between parties. Constitutional amendments are about a safe as gravity.
Hannibal
New member
The demand was never that high. I was one of the last nonresident hunters to attempt to purchase a tag. And if my memory is correct the tags, resident and nonresident, were over the counter. I booked my hunt with a reputable Montana outfitter and because of the injunction and USFWS revocation of its special ruling my greatly anticipated hunt vanished into thin air. At the time I couldn't afford an Alaskan or Canadian grizzly hunt so until now I pretty much resigned myself to the fact that I would never have the opportunity to kill a grizzly in the lower 48 states. Things have changed and they will when the frivolous litigation is exhausted. When that day arrives, I intend to be one of the first nonresidents in Montana to hunt and hopefully kill a grizzly. I'll
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belly-deep
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How is it that every God d*nm thread has to to turn into this sh*t?
Seriously, can you guys talk about hunting instead of R vs D crap?
And that goes for both sides of the spectrum.
It's a shame what this site has turned into. Used to be a great place to talk about hunting, hence the name. Randy should rename it.
BuzzH
Well-known member
The demand was never that high. I was one of the last nonresident hunters to attempt to purchase a tag. And if my memory is correct the tags, resident and nonresident, were over the counter. I booked my hunt with a reputable Montana outfitter and because of the injunction and USFWS revocation of its special ruling my greatly anticipated hunt vanished into thin air. At the time I couldn't afford an Alaskan or Canadian grizzly hunt so until now I pretty much resigned myself to the fact that I would never have the opportunity to kill a grizzly in the lower 48 states. Things have changed and they will when the frivolous litigation is exhausted. When that day arrives, I intend to be one of the first nonresidents in Montana to hunt and hopefully kill a grizzly.[/QUOTE]
Spring grizzly hunts were draw and there weren't many tags offered and only for a couple years, with the last hunt in 1991 or 92. Really, its what caused the hunting of grizzlies to be shut down.
Fall hunts were on a total mortality quota, but were OTC. Any human caused mortality cut into the quota...hit by a car, train, whatever. So, the number of bears that were available to hunters varied from year to year.
The thing to keep in mind, is that when the hunts stopped, there wasn't the level of trophy hunting that we have today. No internet, not many hunting rags, no twitter, no facebook, not many people trying to profit from hunting, no hunting fool, no gohunt, etc. etc.
Now, that's all changed, and why its getting difficult to even draw a pronghorn tag in Wyoming. You can bet your last dollar that any grizzly tags in the lower-48 are going to be highly sought after. I would agree with Greenhorn, its going to make sheep tags look like good odds.
Live in the 80's if you want, but things have changed a lot even in the last 10 years...let alone 30-40.
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Hannibal
New member
The 1991 hunt I referred to was in fact a fall hunt and as I stated the tags were over the counter. "Mortality quotas" or no "mortality quotas" by 1991 when the hunt was terminated the demand was not great and success rates were low. The subjects of Wyoming, social media and pronghorn hunts are subjects you might wish to address in more appropriate and relevant forums. And as far as your math ,"30 - 40" years, you might want to work on that also.
Couldn't agree more. I've been on the road almost non-stop since last August. I'll be home for a few weeks after the 4th of July. A serious house cleaning is in order.
My apologies to those who have to tolerate the juvenile behavior that seems to take over when adults are allowed to anonymously interact without consequences for being adolescent.
Thanks for making this post. It is going to change.
BuzzH
Well-known member
Yeah, in 1991 the demand wasn't that great...trouble is, its not 1991 anymore, big shoots...and just so you don't get your feathers all ruffled...that would be precisely 26 years ago. Even though the point I was making had nothing to do with the reference being made that thing have changed over the last 30-40 years in the hunting world.
I can also tell you that the couple spring hunts they conducted, in 1990-1992, the demand was very high for the very few permits they issued through the draw. Again, even though you think social media has no impact on drawing odds, it does...and will have a significant impact on any grizzly tags issued in WY, MT, or ID.
I wouldn't get my hopes up of being able to draw a tag for lower-48 grizzlies...if I were you.
What you should have done is shoveled sidewalks in the 80's for cash, and went on a grizzly hunt in Canada or Alaska...when you could have afforded it by doing just that.
Oh, and Wyoming will probably get most of the quota in the Yellowstone area, and NR tags are 6K...and you need either a resident to sign off or hire an outfitter to hunt in wilderness. Likely to run 16K+ to hunt a lower 48 griz for a guided NR hunter (assuming you beat astronomical odds and draw).
I think you're dream of killing a grizzly in either MT, ID, or WY would be better classified as something you're more likely to experience in fantasyland.
You blew it...should have went in the 80's...
BTW, the hunt wasn't terminated in 1991...just sayin'.
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Going to have to agree with buzz on this one. If there is ever a season, it will draw a great deal of attention. The Zach Griffiths of the world will blow this thing up for the entire year before the application process, go hunt, the hunting fool, rolling bones, and everyone else will be encouraging their subscribers to apply.
The predictable reaction by the never kill any predator for any reason crowd will draw an equal but opposite response from the kill every predator everywhere every time crowd, which will result in all of those people applying. A great deal of the people who will apply, sadly, won't have the hunting experience or physical fitness level required to even consider doing this on their own, nor the financial resources to pay someone to help them. I'm afraid it will be a complete goat rope.
I know if I was ever lucky enough to draw I would take a buddy that guides grizzly hunts in BC and the Alaskan interior, and has the experience to properly judge them. Because I know I don't, and I have seen way more grizzlies than 90% of people that are going to draw the tag
Hopefully there can be a way to weed out the idiots. The last thing the hunt needs to start off with is someone killing a sow with cubs. Just imagine some of the people any of you have met over the years along the trail, or along the road while hunting deer/elk. Now imagine them turnedloose with a grizzly bear tag.
The predictable reaction by the never kill any predator for any reason crowd will draw an equal but opposite response from the kill every predator everywhere every time crowd, which will result in all of those people applying. A great deal of the people who will apply, sadly, won't have the hunting experience or physical fitness level required to even consider doing this on their own, nor the financial resources to pay someone to help them. I'm afraid it will be a complete goat rope.
I know if I was ever lucky enough to draw I would take a buddy that guides grizzly hunts in BC and the Alaskan interior, and has the experience to properly judge them. Because I know I don't, and I have seen way more grizzlies than 90% of people that are going to draw the tag
Hopefully there can be a way to weed out the idiots. The last thing the hunt needs to start off with is someone killing a sow with cubs. Just imagine some of the people any of you have met over the years along the trail, or along the road while hunting deer/elk. Now imagine them turnedloose with a grizzly bear tag.
shootbrownelk
Well-known member
That's what I heard too.....$6,000.00 for a NR. I guess the Bison tag jump was just a primer.
Sask hunter
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Good luck guys. Hopefully it goes better then the wolf fiasco
AvidIndoorsman
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Totally right... sorry for the comment, will delete..
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