Northwoods Labs
Well-known member
Zinke's no Teddy Roosevelt
http://www.newsweek.com/climate-change-oil-drilling-alaska-zinke-619240
http://www.newsweek.com/climate-change-oil-drilling-alaska-zinke-619240
Ziinke - Friend or Foe?
- Thread starter mfb99
- Start date
This is a prime example of the pot calling the kettle, 'Black'...
While I am a huge supporter of the T.R. legacy there are certain facts being overlooked for partisan agenda poop-a-licious interests.
While the Theodore Roosevelt legacy is one of "conservation" he also left just as significant a legacy, one of industrialization at the expense of land... wait, what? Yep... the Panama Canal. Does it matter it was not our land? That is was shoved down the Columbian Senate's throat by way of the almighty U.S. $$$.
Theodore Roosevelt is one of fantastic values as an... American, for America and no others - even at the expense of a foreign country's land for U.S. interests.
meh, rationalize away...
God Bless Theodore Roosevelt! Gotta love America First! English language, etc! My favorite quote of T.R.
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Sytes is right: We gloss over TR's weaknesses as an imperialist because we love the image of the rough-riding president. The canal is a good example of TR's use of might over diplomacy. We should, while recognizing all of TR's virtues and warts, also recognize that the world TR inhabited was much different than the world today. What has lasted and been proven to be not only wise, but visionary, is his conservation agenda.
And in that regard, Zinke is the furthest thing from Theodore Rex as we've seen in that office since James Watt.
And in that regard, Zinke is the furthest thing from Theodore Rex as we've seen in that office since James Watt.
Irrelevant
Well-known member
All this talk about drilling for oil and natural gas, and exploiting resources while right now every dam on the Columbia (and probably the entire NW) is spilling copious amount of runoff that is unable to go through the turbines do to lack of demand, insufficient grid network, and lack of generation capacity, and no way to store the energy. And that very same spill is also over oxygenating the tailraces impairing fish habitat and salmon migration.
How about instead of raping and pillaging every patch of potential oil/NG in this country we build a couple of off channel reservoirs to act as potential energy batteries and actual work to a sustainable long term, heaven-forbid GREEN, solution to energy.
How about instead of raping and pillaging every patch of potential oil/NG in this country we build a couple of off channel reservoirs to act as potential energy batteries and actual work to a sustainable long term, heaven-forbid GREEN, solution to energy.
RobG
Well-known member
Serious question: are there specific projects being proposed or are you just musing? Seems like the Gorge rim could be a place for pumped storage of wind energy. Maybe they are counting on battery technology being more feasible in the near future.
rg
BigHornRam
Well-known member
Interesting place this Sage Mountain Center.......
http://sagemountain.org/
Sounds like a hippy vegan permiculture paradise!
I would be surprised if they did not use propane for some of their energy needs. Appears like they do use wood to heat with. While wood is renewable and not a fossil fuel, burning it does release CO2.
Thanks Obama for making our wood burning stoves more environmentally friendly, and helping the forest products industry.
https://www.epa.gov/residential-woo...-final-updates-air-emissions-requirements-new
https://www.epa.gov/residential-woo...-final-updates-air-emissions-requirements-new
BigHornRam
Well-known member
Going to use public land or private for these reservoirs?
BigHornRam
Well-known member
Thanks Obama for making our wood burning stoves more environmentally friendly, and helping the forest products industry.
https://www.epa.gov/residential-woo...-final-updates-air-emissions-requirements-new
Requirements make wood burning equipment more expensive as well. Rocket stoves used by the Permiculture crowd are in violation. EPA regulates particulates emitted by wood burning devises. Doesn't regulate CO2 emissions.
Maybe we can get the EPA to regulate forest fire emissions?
We're making America great again by allowing everyone to dump anything they want into anything else they find appropriate without permitting. Sorry you missed the memo.
Those stoves do reduce CO emissions and many others, and while more expensive, the rule still grandfathers in old stoves. So no, they're not necessarily in violation, but when it comes time to replace them, they will have to abide by this rule, if Pruitt doesn't just unilaterally scrap it in favor of dirty air.
BigHornRam
Well-known member
Very few sites in this country that you could feasably use this type of storage.
*currently
At one time, solar was thought to be a gimmick. Now it employs 5 times more people than coal and is growing by leaps and bounds every year.
At one time, battery storage was limited to wet cell batteries that gave off toxic fumes, but now we're looking at battery storage at a commerical scale, with industrial scale storage not far off.
At one time, we used to think the only way to light our houses was with Kerosene, then Tesla invented AC while Edison invented DC electrical currents and changed the world.
Nothing is stationary, everything evolves and those who sit back and say it can't be done, get let behind in the dustbin of history.
BigHornRam
Well-known member
Rocket stoves are mostly made DIY by Permies and I doubt if they care whether or not they are in violation of the EPA, Ben.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocket_stove
Solution: treat them like everyone else and ensure they comply with code.
Nobody is above the law, even hippies.
BigHornRam
Well-known member
That sounds a lot like progress, Ben. Gas powered engines, electricity, natural gas powered furnaces, stoves, water heaters, dryers, refrigerators, freezers, ECT. Things that everyone here use, but a lot of people here like to complain about.
I think there are a lot of amazing discoveries still out there waiting to be discovered. And I bet everyone of these discoveries will have it's share of detractors.
RobG
Well-known member
That's what I was getting at. I actually hosted a presentation on Gordon Butte. I was wondering if something similar was happening around the Gorge.
In Montana the main limitation to large scale wind and solar is getting the generated power to the large scale users (Washington State mostly)' people don't want large power lines running through their property so we are limited to the existing Colstrip line to Washington, which is running at close to capacity. Never say never, but right now it looks like the best we can do is replace the coal power currently shipped on that line with renewable sources as Colstrip's power plants shut down.
You need perfect storm of good things to make a project like Gordon Butte feasible. It is close to the Colstrip line so that's a big thing, and also the geology that will allow storage at two different altitudes. The Gorge area is also close to the transmission lines so maybe something is possible there.
Areas with lots of BLM land seem prime for renewable energy since you don't run into the property rights issues. Zinke could be a big advocate for it if he wanted to.
Agreed.
It's also worth noting that the kerosene industry didn't throw millions of dollars at politicians to try and prop up their businesses, but moved over to producing gasoline, which was previously dumped in the rivers, for the new-fangled horseless carriage.
Adapt or die was the mantra then, today is simply "purchase the gov't."
If you want innovation, you cannot reward those who simply wish to continue their dominance.
RobG
Well-known member
BHR - there is no doubt that renewable energy is better for solving our most serious environmental problem: too much CO2 emissions. Nobody has any good ideas how to solve that problem short of reducing the production of CO2, and it is a simple math problem to show that very little progress can be made using fossil fuels. On the other hand, there is a roadmap to making solar a huge part of our energy supply. Reducing cost for generation and storage is a technical challenge that will be met. The same forces that make today's laptop computer more powerful than yesterday's Cray supercomputer are at work for creating solar energy.
