Lead Sled and Group Sizes

I love my lead sled. I use it to dial in the .338 Win shooting 250 grain bullets then once have a decent grouping I shift to bags and let my shoulder get in the game as point of impact is a bit different when shouldering the gun with cheek near the scope. I attempt to find time to shoot off sticks when in the field rather than shoulder and fire though sometimes in close quarters it is what it is.

I dont understand all the waiting and cooling between shots. I guess that may be how your gun shoots the very best, but it really is useless info. It's not like any deer or elk is going to stand there and wait for a minute while your barrel cools so you can shoot at it again. I don't say this to be condescending, it really just doesn't make any sense to me.

I do all my load testing prone with a bipod and lightweight rear bag I carry in my hunting pack. This is as good of a position I will ever have in the field. My hunting guns I usually just do 3 shots. My competition rigs I will start with 3 and fine tune with at least 5 round groups, and then often proof them with 10 round groups to get really good numbers over the chrono and simulate a 10 shot stage at a match.

For reference, paperwork for a new suppressor went through recently. Sat morning was my first opportunity to shoot it. Threw it on my coyote rig. Prone, bipod, rear bag and 3 shots. Moved moved the turrets up a half minute and right a quarter minute. Then proceeded to bang steel at 420, 500, 600, and 800 for the next 20 shots.

Okbow87 said:

I dont understand all the waiting and cooling between shots. I guess that may be how your gun shoots the very best, but it really is useless info. It's not like any deer or elk is going to stand there and wait for a minute while your barrel cools so you can shoot at it again. I don't say this to be condescending, it really just doesn't make any sense to me.

I do all my load testing prone with a bipod and lightweight rear bag I carry in my hunting pack. This is as good of a position I will ever have in the field. My hunting guns I usually just do 3 shots. My competition rigs I will start with 3 and fine tune with at least 5 round groups, and then often proof them with 10 round groups to get really good numbers over the chrono and simulate a 10 shot stage at a match.

For reference, paperwork for a new suppressor went through recently. Sat morning was my first opportunity to shoot it. Threw it on my coyote rig. Prone, bipod, rear bag and 3 shots. Moved moved the turrets up a half minute and right a quarter minute. Then proceeded to bang steel at 420, 500, 600, and 800 for the next 20 shots.

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You want to shoot a cool barrel because your first shot(the one that counts the most) is going to come from a cool barrel. If you do it right the first time no second shot should be needed.

Keep in mind that you may be unknowingly canting your rifle when using bags. I was recently reading a thread where a guy was shooting better groups using a bipod because he was canting his rifle on the bags. Maybe not suitable for a hunting rifle, but a level is the only way to know for sure.

MJE2083 said:

You want to shoot a cool barrel because your first shot(the one that counts the most) is going to come from a cool barrel. If you do it right the first time no second shot should be needed.

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I can understand that train of thought, but its going to take a lot longer than a minute between shots for that barrel to return to cold bore round status. I am much more interested that it will put the first shot where I want it and then subsequent shots to the same point of impact. If your cold bore shot is consistently far enough out of the grouping to where it's not acceptable accuracy, something else is wrong. Most likely something mechanical. Poor bedding, ring/base issue, barrel poorly stress relieved during manufacturing, etc.

Bags used properly, so the rifle is fully supported, have worked best for me.
Old pants legs filled with sand or dried beans are cheap. It usually takes three of those types of bags to do the trick. Two in front and one under the rear.
If you are zeroing a rifle the bags are 100% the way to go. I find the point of impact changes on a sled because of the lack of free recoil, causing the muzzle to rise and make slightly higher holes in the target.
I have also experienced the higher point of impact with bipods. But it was only slight with bipods and only a problem at all on a surface that grabbed at the bipod feet or uneven ground that reacted different on each foot of bipod.
If extra time is taken in bipod adjustment it would rarely be an issue. Nun the less, I don't use bipods much.
Shooting sticks allow a more natural recoil line of travel than a bipod in my opinion most often. Practice with either is a must before you know what you like best.
On the range doing load development a bench or comfy prone position with bags is the way to go.
Three or five shots matters not. Cold bore shots are for a zero not load work up in my experience. Waiting for a cool down between a couple grouping's is a must ,but between every shot is a waist of range time and in practical.
If your rifle can't shoot two five shot groups in less than five minutes without cooking the barrel then the loads too hot or the barrels inside diameter is too tight. Even the light weight barrels on my 300 win. mags can handle that.

AlaskaHunter said:

On a calm day I typically get 1 inch or better 5 shot groups with a led sled.

I alternate shooting a .270 (130 gr TSX) and a .300 H &H (180g TSX) that way the barrels stay cool.
I take one shot, then dry fire 5 times with the other rifle focusing on trigger pull/sight picture,
take a shot, dry fire 5 times with the other rifle focusing on trigger pull/sight picture, take a shot, etc.

Dry firing helps keep the barrels cool and helps me focus on fundamentals.

I also use a spotting scope so I do not leave the bench until I'm done shooting both rifles.

(I reload with IMR4350 for the 130 gr, IMR4381 for the 180gr TSX)

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I also shoot alone at a private range (no one else there, so no rush)
I use the lead sled for load development (hand loading).

Once I'm happy with performance I shoot using shooting sticks and my pack from positions and
terrain that I am likely to be in the field hunting sheep, caribou or moose.
Shooting down and up steep slopes is especially important practice for sheep hunting.
Shooting off hand is important for moose hunting as I typically call them in close,
where shots sometimes may be quick in the brush.

I am no expert, but I relied on one's advice to learn to test various loads. I have a very light 7mm-08. With a lead sled I simply could not get groups. I used the following method:
Clean barrel
One fouling round
Shoot with a bag under the action, and a bag under the point of the butt plate, non-trigger hand lightly resting atop scope.
An honest timed five minutes between shots

I agree that this in no way replicates hunting scenarios, but it allowed me to figure out which factory load grouped best. I would clean barrel and shoot a fouling round between each different load. The improvement from a lead sled was, for me, very noticeable. With the lead sled I was obviously torquing the fore end and distorting point of aim.

I started using a stop watch to time the cooling periods because it has such an impact. My 300 RUM needs 5-6 minutes between shots to consistently maintain sub MOA. Obviously in a hunting situation I wouldn't get that time but also don't measure a successful shot by that same margin. Now that's a ultra magnum and there's plenty downside in them for many reasons.

I shoot a M77 Hawkeye 300 RCM and could get an average 1.5" to 2" 3 shot group with factory ammo and was little disappointed, off bags and cheap bench, trigger had been worked on too. I sent it out to have it checked out and they shot same size groups. Then we put it in a lead sled and were shocked by sub moa groupings. What gives?