Lead Sled and Group Sizes

HighDesertSage

HighDesertSage

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So I am recently new to reloading and I am having a hell of a time trying to develope loads for my 7mm-08 and 300 win. I am using quality components (Barnes TTSX and Nosler Accubonds) and have tried multiple variations of powders and seating depths. Problem is I can't seem to get down to 5 shot groups under an inch. I am anywhere from 1.2" to 2" at 100 yards. So my question is should I be testing my loads off of bags, or is the lead sled ok? I figured it would be a solid rest, but maybe I am just spinning my wheels.

As always thanks for the help.
 
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That would somewhat reduce the "human error" part of the equation but it also changes the recoil path of the rifle which will also effect groups. I generally only shoot 3 shot groups because after that the barrel is pretty warm.
 
I agree with the previous post. Only shoot three shot groups, allowing about a minute between shots. Wait about 5 minutes before you shoot the next 3 shot group. If the barrel feels hot, wait even longer. By the way, a 5 shot group at an inch isn't too bad (1.2"). I don't use a leadsled, I shoot off of sandbags.
 
Do you shoot 3 shot groups during load development to? I am honestly asking, I just assumed 5 shot was standard. Maybe that's why they are going so wide.
 
You can get a good idea of what the load is going to do with a 3 shot group. 5 shots is just wasting powder and bullets if the first three are in a 2.5 inch group. If they are, I wouldn't shoot the last two. Then you would have to pull the bullets- more work. I just load three of each until I get close to where I need to be.
 
I shoot 5. I personally hate lead sleds. Barnes bullets need a big jump, seat at least .050 off the lands. They are also long for weight and need a fast twist.
 
You mentioned multiple variations of..... Change only one variable at a time or you can end up chasing your tail. It sounds like you have good components, so that's a solid start. How did the rifle shoot with factory ammo? Did you measure the maximum OAL with a gauge and tweak from there, or are you using published OAL for your selected bullets?

It can be very frustrating, but when you find the right combo (and you will), it's very rewarding.
 
Use a solid rest that works best for you, just make sure the rifle can recoil naturally. IMO if you've been through that many load combos I'd start to suspect some issue with the rifle.
 
marksjeep said:
You mentioned multiple variations of..... Change only one variable at a time or you can end up chasing your tail. It sounds like you have good components, so that's a solid start. How did the rifle shoot with factory ammo? Did you measure the maximum OAL with a gauge and tweak from there, or are you using published OAL for your selected bullets?

It can be very frustrating, but when you find the right combo (and you will), it's very rewarding.
Click to expand...

I definitely only change one variable at a time. I learned that one the hard way.

I did measure for OAL and tried going off a few off the lands. Problem was that rounds didn't fit in my magazine, which I found highly impractical for a hunting rifle.

I ordered up some bags on amazon and will give that a go.

Thanks for the help all.
 
On a calm day I typically get 1 inch or better 5 shot groups with a led sled.

I alternate shooting a .270 (130 gr TSX) and a .300 H &H (180g TSX) that way the barrels stay cool.
I take one shot, then dry fire 5 times with the other rifle focusing on trigger pull/sight picture,
take a shot, dry fire 5 times with the other rifle focusing on trigger pull/sight picture, take a shot, etc.

Dry firing helps keep the barrels cool and helps me focus on fundamentals.

I also use a spotting scope so I do not leave the bench until I'm done shooting both rifles.

(I reload with IMR4350 for the 130 gr, IMR4381 for the 180gr TSX)
 
marksjeep said:
Roger that. Did either of the rifles shoot factory ammo any better than the handloads so far?
Click to expand...

My Browning X-bolt has always shot the factory 165 TTSX from Barnes extremely well. Usually well under 1 MOA for a 5 shot group. I have tried to mimic the factory round in terms of COAL, bullet weight, ETC, but the best I could do was 1.2". The lead sled was just recently purchased, about the same time I started reloading, hence the inquiry.

The 7/08 is a Tikka T3. I haven't found anything it really likes yet. Factory or handload.

The other very likely option is I am a terrible shot. :D
 
I like to shoot both with the sled and then just off the bipod as well with a bag under the rear. I guess if I'm nervous about human error I go for the sled but for real life shooting I like to see how I shoot off the bipod like I would in the field. I had a load the other day that I wanted to try at distance but wanted to make sure I had as little human error as possible so I went with the sled. I doubt I'll ever shoot this good again. 6 shots at 425 yds.

Group.jpg
 
I agree no need to shoot 5x. If I've shot 5x at an animal it means the first 4 were no good which you should be able to figure out with 3 shot groups. :)

Just burning components, time and $$ firing 5x, but you're on the right track. Could also be a minor form issue with your shooting technique that we won't be much help with.

On a positive note you've got a good excuse to do a lot of shooting this summer.
 
I purchased a lead sled this spring and promptly put it on the shelf to gather dust.
That thing is too darned big and bulky for me, and holds the rifle way too high off the bench, might be fine for a big guy? I can shoot much more accurately off of a standard adjustable front rest and a couple sand bags under the rear stock.

What's your trigger like?
A light trigger really helps most people shoot more accurately.
 
I appologize if any of this has been mentioned. A lead sled is fine in my opinion but I don't like to strap tge barrel down. I also don't like five shot groups I'd just stick to 3. When you shoot your five shot groups are you single loading each shell or are you loading the mag. Reloaded bullets that are swedged in can change the seating depth when you shoot and they slam against the front of the magazine. They can also ding the end of the bullet. All of which would have an affect on the group size. Also when I really want to see what a rifle will do I generally wait a minute or more between shots. To pass the time I shoot more than one rifle and just shoot each one once before starting over. I set each one in the shade barrel up and action open to cool between shots.
 
I have the same issues you do. I used to shoot off a lead sled, but my groups with the same ammo got better from bags. I also have a Tikka t3 7mm08 that is getting very frustrating, doesn't shoot factory ammo good at all. The best load so far for it is 120 ttsx and varget. Still trying to fine tune it. I think you will have better luck using bags. Good luck!
 
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