CA Mule Deer Tag Reduction - severe die off

Can you imagine the heads exploding if we dropped to one buck tag? The survey that was recently done overwhelmingly shows that hunters simply want the opportunity to hunt. That's gonna be a tough circle to square here when so many are already have their guard up against the Department. True for any state though, taking away opportunity is surely a recipe for backlash.

That said, our success rates are low enough I don't think the two tag system matters that much. At least not in the denser forested areas of the state based on conversations I've had with a couple of different bios.
 
jrod said:
Deer over grazed....Ha! Gimme a break. There aren't enough deer to overgraze in the first place. Coyotes and bears eatin fawns and cats eatin adults plus the drought. We haven't seen too many deer ever
Click to expand...

I think you need a better fundamental understanding of the browse species deer rely on, and how chronic overuse of these can affect the population in the long term. This can occur at any point of the deer's use pattern from summer range to transitional range to winter range.
 
jryoung said:
Can you imagine the heads exploding if we dropped to one buck tag? The survey that was recently done overwhelmingly shows that hunters simply want the opportunity to hunt. That's gonna be a tough circle to square here when so many are already have their guard up against the Department. True for any state though, taking away opportunity is surely a recipe for backlash.

That said, our success rates are low enough I don't think the two tag system matters that much. At least not in the denser forested areas of the state based on conversations I've had with a couple of different bios.
Click to expand...

You already have opportunity, as many (if not most) general tags are unrestricted and available to all each year. NOTHING says they have have to have double the opportunity. Remember folks, it should be about the resource we impact (deer) and NOT about us.

I wonder why no other states in the West allow (unrestricted) a hunter to kill two bucks each year in their? Is there a direct correlation between that and success rates? I believe so.
 
JLS said:
I think you need a better fundamental understanding of the browse species deer rely on, and how chronic overuse of these can affect the population in the long term. This can occur at any point of the deer's use pattern from summer range to transitional range to winter range.
Click to expand...
Agreed! Additionally, overgrazing can be the result of or exacerbated by drought which he did recognize...
 
The study of blacktails in Mendo was very eye opening to me. By far the largest fawn mortality occurred from black bear predation. It wasn't coyotes or cats. It was bears. The other interesting note was the researchers found some of the highest kill rates by mountain lions among all published data which they attributed to black bears stealing carcasses. If you want to help deer in your area, fill your bear tag first.

Another interesting stat to find out would be how many hunters filled both deer tags vs only one. I know that in waterfowl total take is largely affected by season length rather than bag limit, would be curious if the same follows in big game as well.
 
BOHNTR said:
You already have opportunity, as many (if not most) general tags are unrestricted and available to all each year. NOTHING says they have have to have double the opportunity. Remember folks, it should be about the resource we impact (deer) and NOT about us.

I wonder why no other states in the West allow (unrestricted) a hunter to kill two bucks each year in their? Is there a direct correlation between that and success rates? I believe so.
Click to expand...

Idaho comes to mind for two tags. Heck MT even lets people hunt unrestricted during the rut!
 
BOHNTR said:
You already have opportunity, as many (if not most) general tags are unrestricted and available to all each year. NOTHING says they have have to have double the opportunity. Remember folks, it should be about the resource we impact (deer) and NOT about us.

I wonder why no other states in the West allow (unrestricted) a hunter to kill two bucks each year in their? Is there a direct correlation between that and success rates? I believe so.
Click to expand...

I agree 100%, I'd be totally fine dropping to one tag. But anytime there is a change in regulations in this state the snowflakes start to melt. Just look at the whining when D6 turned premium/restricted (as a result of math) the last couple of years or d3-5 selling out. I know the internet is a terrible barometer but some of the excuses/conspiracy theories/bitching out there is unreal. Too many blame the Department for decisions made in the halls of Sacramento (cats, copper and hounds).
 
BOHNTR said:
You already have opportunity, as many (if not most) general tags are unrestricted and available to all each year. NOTHING says they have have to have double the opportunity. Remember folks, it should be about the resource we impact (deer) and NOT about us.

I wonder why no other states in the West allow (unrestricted) a hunter to kill two bucks each year in their? Is there a direct correlation between that and success rates? I believe so.
Click to expand...

Fish and Game or fish and wildlife, does this for one simple reason to get more $$$. They know there isn't chit for deer in any of the general zones that's why they offer up to two tags. The general zone hunts occur early in the year where it's hot, dusty and dry not ideal for stalking and most deer are nocturnal because of the heat. And as I sit hear bitching about the poor management, low deer densities, low hunter success rates and tough hunting conditions I'm getting ready to get tags for myself, my sister, my nephews and my dad because even though I probably won't fill my tag again this year I for sure as hell ain't going to fill it from the couch
 
JLS said:
I think you need a better fundamental understanding of the browse species deer rely on, and how chronic overuse of these can affect the population in the long term. This can occur at any point of the deer's use pattern from summer range to transitional range to winter range.
Click to expand...

tell me why x5b deer have plummeted? Very little loss of habitat to urban encroachment and the cattle don't necessarily compete with deer for food sources. If there are less and less deer in the area one would think that the competition for food would diminish, even as food sources mature and grow out of reach. Why a reduction in tags year after year out there.
Just curious
 
jrod said:
tell me why x5b deer have plummeted? Very little loss of habitat to urban encroachment and the cattle don't necessarily compete with deer for food sources. If there are less and less deer in the area one would think that the competition for food would diminish, even as food sources mature and grow out of reach. Why a reduction in tags year after year out there.
Just curious
Click to expand...

That's a good question. I don't cover that area, but I'll see what I can find out from the biologist that does cover that area.
 
Saw the deer in the oicture above in the 2016 after season end in California. Fingers crossed that boy is still around. And before you ask no I won't tell you where.
 
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