Lander "one shot" hunt issues...

I've been asked via PM to clarify my comment that seems to be supporting this event.

npaden said:

It has been going on for a LONG time and things with that kind of tradition are pretty neat. From that perspective I would hate to see it broken up.

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When I posted that I didn't even know the rules of the event, I had read the article and understood that it was exclusive based on gender and if that was it's only problem originally I felt it was sad to see it broken up.

I referenced the Masters golf club, but a big difference is that the Masters golf club has no State or Federal funding. I was a Boy Scout and that has historically been a gender exclusive organization and feel that it is a great organization although again, it does not receive and State or Federal funding that I'm aware of.

Thinking this through, I would say that if they want to remain gender exclusive, they should not be allowed to receive licenses from the State.

With all of that said, the more I read about the event, the more it seems to have more problems other than simply being gender exclusive.

Although traditions are neat, and I am kind of nostalgic, this does seem like one that should be looked at very closely, at least as far as being funded through state issued tags.

Several of us have mentioned that the 24 "active shooters" getting tags seems almost reasonable, especially if it wasn't gender exclusive, however reading the history, originally there were only 3 teams so that would only be 9 tags. A far cry from the 80 that they are currently receiving.

Based on the attention that the event is currently getting, I would think that the folks who live in the state of Wyoming will get this figured out pretty soon.

I think the real problem is these tags are always given to well healed, influential people. We are talking people like former vice presidents, governors and former governors, heads of multi-billion dollar corporations etc. They are taking tags from the public and giving them to the wealthy. That is where this event, although originally well intentioned, has gone far far astray.

BuzzH said:

One of the legislative interim topics that is going to be getting some press is the issue of "complimentary and set-aside" licenses. This all came about due to a bill that would have set aside 80 licenses for a womens only pronghorn hunt in NE Wyoming.

While I had heard of the "one shot" antelope hunt, I didn't know many of the details...to say the devil is in those details is an understatement.

An article came out yesterday regarding the issue:

http://trib.com/lifestyles/recreati...cle_e3fcf4a2-eb6c-5062-a3f3-266929c88b26.html

Generally, eight teams of three shoot in the contest, and the other 56 licenses are given to past shooters who come to the event.

Some of the licenses, such as the resident and nonresident ones in area 65, have extremely low drawing odds for the general public. The chance of a nonresident hunter drawing a tag in area 65, for example, is between 2 and 4 percent. It’s because of the low odds that the Legislature voted to set aside licenses in 1979.

There is a literal laundry list of things that are wrong with this one shot hunt, but the ones that I find the most troubling are the set aside tags being given to 56 "past shooters" that are valid for some of the hardest to draw antelope units in the State. The other is the fact that a State asset is being given to a private club, and then the club discriminates against women hunters by not allowing them to participate. Its one thing if the hunters who participate were drawing these tags by applying in the draw, but they're being GIVEN these tags by the State.

There is a lot of other issues, but for now, I would like to ask for opinions and see what the hunttalk crowd thinks of it per the article.

Fire away...and I've heard rumor that this may be talked about in depth on an upcoming podcast.

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Are the tags pulled from 65 or 66? Anytime I have seen one shot folks in the field it has been 66.

EBOLAVIRS said:

Are the tags pulled from 65 or 66? Anytime I have seen one shot folks in the field it has been 66.

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Areas 65,66,67,68, & 106

EBOLAVIRS said:

I think the real problem is these tags are always given to well healed, influential people. We are talking people like former vice presidents, governors and former governors, heads of multi-billion dollar corporations etc. They are taking tags from the public and giving them to the wealthy. That is where this event, although originally well intentioned, has gone far far astray.

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The question that I have, in addition to all the other problems with this elitist group is what happens to the antelope and their meat after the "Hunt" takes place. Is it utilized by them or just tossed in the dumpster? I wouldn't buy the idea that these snobbish rich folk take the meat home to wherever the heck they call home.

Wow...there's a lot of information to digest around this one. I had never heard of this before. Making a road trip this weekend, so looking forward to listening to the podcast.

Again, where to start....
My biggest issue with this is the way it turns the hunt into a game/competition. That idea has always irritated me, and I have a hard time seeing how that paints hunters/hunting in any sort of positive light with regard to perceptions by non-hunters. It bothers me that they are hiding behind many of the arguments that we all use when trying to tell non-hunters why hunting is important to us: tradition, "camaraderie", conservation. It cheapens those as arguments for the rest of us. I don't care how much good you say you are doing for conservation, how steeped in tradition the hunt is for you personally - I think there are limits to how much goodwill those argument will buy from the non-hunting public if some guy dressed like an "indian maiden" while participating in a hunt that bars women is claiming those same values.

The exclusion of women from this particular event is archaic and the behavior surrounding this "tradition" is disgusting, but it isn't really shocking to me. There are still a lot of good ole' boys clubs around who do this kind of stuff. I suppose there are many women who don't enjoy hunting, so if they enjoy shopping excursions and such, more power to them. Not my cup of tea personally. What I do have a problem with is that the state is essentially barring women from having the same opportunity at those trophy tags that men have. It is effectively state-sanctioned discrimination. I don't know of any place that gifts women any number of any kind of tag based solely on their gender. Interesting that the Women's Wyoming antelope hunt was denied because of the virtual 100% draw odds of the units they requested. Seems to me they set their sights too low then. I think they need to reevaluate the units they asked for, and make the state put their money where their mouth is.

I'm playing devil's advocate here, because in reality I don't think setting aside trophy tags for special interests is acceptable. I don't like activities that make hunting and access to public resources exclusive. I don't like the way this event is being justified (namely tradition and conservation). 56 tags for past shooters is absurd, for all the reasons already mentioned. I don't really see anything to like about this event at all.

Curious what the sentiments are from various sportsmen's groups?

shootbrownelk said:

The question that I have, in addition to all the other problems with this elitist group is what happens to the antelope and their meat after the "Hunt" takes place. Is it utilized by them or just tossed in the dumpster? I wouldn't buy the idea that these snobbish rich folk take the meat home to wherever the heck they call home.

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Generalize much? Be careful with the name calling. Many people would characterize people with the means to travel and hunt as Snobbish Rich Folk. Some would think of CPA's the same. Just because someone has worked hard and might be more fortunate than someone else does not mean they don't deserve the same level of respect as someone that is less fortunate. I'm sure many RICH folk take just as good of care of their game meat as us poor folk. Heck, some of em probably even enjoy eating wild game.

I'm not one to be too terribly politically correct. The actual event doesn't really bother too much. But I don't really think this group should be receiving guaranteed tags.....any more than any other club should be receiving tags. I'm guessing that this started many years ago when tags were much easier to come by, and maybe even over the counter. There is now a much higher demand for these types of tags and the powers that be should evaluate the tag allotment and I would think, put these tags back into the public drawing. Or at least reduce the number of tags to the original level. Hell I don't know.....the conservation money raised from this event may fund the entire WY game and fish dept. If that is the case, maybe it would be worth the 80 tags.

LWC55 said:

Hell I don't know.....the conservation money raised from this event may fund the entire WY game and fish dept. If that is the case, maybe it would be worth the 80 tags.

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The event funds things like a new community center in Lander, a bronze statue in front of it, and water for wildlife projects, a majority of which aren't even in Wyoming.

If South Africa, Texas, Colorado, Oklahoma, etc. want to develop water for their wildlife, let them provide the tags to hunt animals in their States/Countries.

Wyoming wildlife should have always been the only beneficiary of any water projects and profits from this hunt...period.

I agree Buzz. If WY is donating the tags, WY should be the beneficiary of the monies raised. I wasn't sure how much or where the money went.

And they get a 3 day head start on the hunt....nice.

It looks to me like the women have it figured out pretty well. And in an area with leftover tags.

http://wyomingwomensantelopehunt.org/

Brittany Chukarman said:

It looks to me like the women have it figured out pretty well. And in an area with leftover tags.

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I do think the women have a good thing going on there. What baffles me is why, when they can get every single antelope tag they need by simply applying in the regular drawing, they are lobbying to get their own 80 tags through the legislature. This would certainly set a bad precedent and makes it much more difficult to solve the One Shot issue.

LWC55 said:

Generalize much? Be careful with the name calling. Many people would characterize people with the means to travel and hunt as Snobbish Rich Folk. Some would think of CPA's the same. Just because someone has worked hard and might be more fortunate than someone else does not mean they don't deserve the same level of respect as someone that is less fortunate. I'm sure many RICH folk take just as good of care of their game meat as us poor folk. Heck, some of em probably even enjoy eating wild game.

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Perhaps I should have said legislators, actors,sports figures, etc. But you didn't answer my question about what happens to the meat. I'm sure the group allows any average Joe hunter of mediocre means acceptance into their hunt.

This issue would not have come up without the women also asking for tags. Point is state is giving licenses to a male only hunt that does not really benefit wildlife in Wyoming, or any other charity in this state. I also do not believe any other average joe hunter is welcome at this hunt. Send in your app and we'll see if you get in.

shootbrownelk said:

Perhaps I should have said legislators, actors,sports figures, etc. But you didn't answer my question about what happens to the meat. I'm sure the group allows any average Joe hunter of mediocre means acceptance into their hunt.

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I have no idea what happens to the meat. I assume it gets eaten by the hunters or it is donated to those that could use the meat. I could be totally wrong though. Only thing I know about this event is what I've seen on this thread......and I believe I heard it briefly mentioned on one of Randy's podcasts with the governor. I just don't think it is right to question a person's reasons for hunting or morals based on the balance in their bank account. Because a person is rich or poor does not make them a better hunter or conservationist. I don't think WY should subsidize antelope tags for legislators, actors,sports figures, etc. But it seems that having folks with that kind of influence on the side of hunting, fishing, and public lands could be a good thing. I think they should be able to have their club, hunt, and goofy traditions. But they should do it on their own dime.

Taking that many tags out of the drawing pool for any organization is a bad deal when tags are limited to begin with. If they are giving out extra tags over the regular draw numbers that is even worse because it reduces the resource that "common" draw hunters wait years to access.

I wonder how long it will be until "the Don" from Utah figures out a way to get Don Jr. and other politically connected pols to be involved with this hunt? Some traditions need to go the way of the Dodo.


Although, this does give me an idea to lobby our favorite state senator to see if she will introduce a bill that sets aside 30 either sex rifle elk tags in the Missouri breaks to be given exclusively to Hunttalk members each year. To make it challenging the rules would be that all elk must be killed with a 7mmHT and all shots must be under 500 yards. I would be the chairman of said organization and dole out permits at my discretion. Any money raised over the cost of food and beverages would be donated to defend hunting access on public land.

BuzzH said:

The event funds things like a new community center in Lander, a bronze statue in front of it, and water for wildlife projects, a majority of which aren't even in Wyoming.

If South Africa, Texas, Colorado, Oklahoma, etc. want to develop water for their wildlife, let them provide the tags to hunt animals in their States/Countries.

Wyoming wildlife should have always been the only beneficiary of any water projects and profits from this hunt...period.

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I would agree that the money raised from the event should go to i state conservation programs. Our turkey hunt dollars go mostly to scholarships of outdoor conservation programs at our state universities. Now there is no guarantee these students will stay in Kansas but I still believe it is a worthy endeavor.

Again, where our hunt greatly differs and I fully understand the rub is our tags are purchased over the counter and there is no special allocation.

I am not sure this pronghorn hunt could exist without the special allocation under the current circumstances in Wyoming and maybe that is the point especially with the dollars raised not particularly benefiting the states conservation efforts. Is it a 501C? Would be interesting to look at the books.

Gerald Martin said:

I wonder how long it will be until "the Don" from Utah figures out a way to get Don Jr. and other politically connected pols to be involved with this hunt?

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Don Jr already had a go at the One Shot.

JM77 said:

Don Jr already had a go at the One Shot.

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Hey, that's good news! He is now eligible to hunt again as a "returning hunter".