Making the switch to Copper, Advice Needed

JLS said:

The Barnes loads are usually hotter than other manuals. The cannelures on the bullets reduce the bearing surface and allow you to use higher powder charges than normal. As always, use the manual and work up in an intelligent manner. I've found best accuracy at about 95% of max loads.

Click to expand...

I purchased this rifle which was my fathernlaw's buddies safe queen, only 20 shots through it, it came with a Lyman manual, dies, brass, ect. which he bought 50 years ago when he got the rifle.... um holy crap has every one backed down the speed on the .264 win mag the hottest load in that manual is a good 300-400 fps above anything I have seen published now by anyone. Meanwhile the load for a .270 is almost identical to my book from 2016. Not sure what happened in the last couple of decades to warrant the change.

Also I know hornady loads a 160 grain lead cartridge for a .264 which is super long... makes me thing it would be possible to make a 140 grain copper?

Barnes shows a 130 grain TSX @ 3000-3100 fps out of a 24" barrel. There isn't much I don't think I could kill with that.

wllm1313 said:

Also I know hornady loads a 160 grain lead cartridge for a .264 which is super long... makes me thing it would be possible to make a 140 grain copper?

Click to expand...

That 160 Interlock is a round-nosed design, which will make it short for its' weight. A better comparison would be the 160 Protected Point from Woodleigh. It is a spire point, flat based bullet that goes 1.381". The 130 TSX from Barnes is also flat based, and goes 1.331". Not much difference there for length, considering a 30 grain weight difference.

Barnes recommends a 1:8.5 twist for that 130 TSX. For their 127 LRX, which is 1.399" long, they recommend a 1:8 twist. A 140 mono might well be long enough to need something faster than 1:8 to stabilize, and you're not going to find that outside of a custom barrel or a Swedish Mauser. Not a very large group of folks to market a bullet to...

As far as speed goes for pushing non leaded hunting bullets, you have that covered in spades unless your hand loading for the lower gnats butt accuracy/powder savings node. You want to load at the higher power/accuracy node and expanding issues will be non existent.
Now weight comparison between copper and its lead counterparts do vary. Weight being equal, your non lead bullet will be longer than leaded bullets, sometimes a lot longer as weight goes up. The .264 class bullets are long to begin with so I can see why there are so many options going lighter. The heavier bullets may run into seating issues ( too much bullet in the case/ neck tension as your seatin at the beginning of the ogive)as well as COAL issues ( magazine legnth and throat). Generally a rule of thumb with no leaded bullets you can go one step grain class down to equal the higher class of lead. Ex. 120gr copper would be the same class as a 140gr lead bullet. Your tipped copper bullets will retain about 98% of their original weight (the plastic tip is 98% of the time obliterated) the non tipped copper usuall retain all of their weight. That said it is possible to shear off a pedal if you hit dense bone (ribs don't count). If you do dense bone it will do a lot of damage and anchor that animal down.
Copper likes to jump! You'll need to find the sweet spot off the lands for gnats butt acuracy.
About the only negative I've had with non lead Ammo is fouling. Be prepared to spend a bit more time cleaning the copper out of your bore. You'll get about ten rounds out before you start to see chron speeds drop and screw with your load ladder testing.
Happy loading

i've been slowly switching over each rifle to solid copper bullets, specifically Barnes TTSX bullets. the results are impressive so far. my previous brand was the Nosler AB's, which is a damn good bullet and have nothing negative to say about it. the only thing is one does get a bit more fouling, but thats easily taken care of with some Butch's Bore Shine,(stinks like hell though).

Hello,

As the Nonlead Ammunition Coordinator for California, I can give you some options that are not well known...

Cutting Edge Bullets has a vast selection of copper bullets to choose from (including the 140grain). As earlier posts have mentioned, you should start out with a 120 grain first, then work your way up. These bullets are designed to segment upon entering the animal. They are the best option for longer range shooters bc they only require a minimum velocity of 1500-1600fps to expand. I have shot a number of animals with this bullet and they are highly effective.

https://cuttingedgebullets.com/shop/cutting-edge-bullets/rifle-bullets?caliber=6

Cavity Back Bullets is a new company and they offer a 118 grain 6.5 bullet. These bullets are design to expand to 3x original diameter. Barnes, Nosler, Hornady advertise 2x expansion. Again, they have a lower minimum velocity requirement then the bigger manufacturers.

https://www.cavitybackbullets.com/product-p/cb-mkz-6.5-118.htm

Lastly is Maker Bullets, similar to Cavity Back Bullets. I initially had some accuracy issues with these bullets but their customer service is great.

http://www.makerbullets.com/products.php?cat=3&scri=58

Take Care and Happy Hunting,
Russell