Irrelevant
Well-known member
Out of $15-25 bil total cost for the damn thing.
White House Budget Cuts LWCF by $120 Million
- Thread starter Ben Lamb
- Start date
Out of $15-25 bil total cost for the damn thing.
npaden
Well-known member
Just sticking with the Department of Interior.
Their 2009 budget was 10.6 billion. The proposed 2018 budget is 11.6 billion. That's up 1 billion or 9.4%.
The Consumer Price Index has gone up 11.6% over that same time period.
I just don't see this as squeezing blood out of a rock.
A LOT of the companies that I audit have actually decreased costs over that same period. Automation has enabled companies to do more with less. Private companies have looked at the tremendous costs associated with defined benefit retirement plans and post retirement health care costs and made changes to those benefits, not just pulling the rug out and taking them away, but phasing those out to the newly hired employees.
The scary thing is that none of these budgets even deal with post retirement costs, those are off the books right now on the Federal numbers but they are also in the trillion plus dollar range.
Their 2009 budget was 10.6 billion. The proposed 2018 budget is 11.6 billion. That's up 1 billion or 9.4%.
The Consumer Price Index has gone up 11.6% over that same time period.
I just don't see this as squeezing blood out of a rock.
A LOT of the companies that I audit have actually decreased costs over that same period. Automation has enabled companies to do more with less. Private companies have looked at the tremendous costs associated with defined benefit retirement plans and post retirement health care costs and made changes to those benefits, not just pulling the rug out and taking them away, but phasing those out to the newly hired employees.
The scary thing is that none of these budgets even deal with post retirement costs, those are off the books right now on the Federal numbers but they are also in the trillion plus dollar range.
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OriginalOscar
Active member
Yep. We've got to fix the problem and it's going to affect all of us.
bobbydean
Well-known member
npaden.
Thanks for the post. US debt is the issue. Obama raised it to 20 trillion. We cannot survive.
The budget has to be cut and Trump cut it fairly.
Fair. The Department of the Interior was treated fair.
I am a public land advocate and a BHA member.
The state of the nation debt is critical.
Do you want the US to be Greece.
We have a smart president. Give him some leeway!
Thanks for the post. US debt is the issue. Obama raised it to 20 trillion. We cannot survive.
The budget has to be cut and Trump cut it fairly.
Fair. The Department of the Interior was treated fair.
I am a public land advocate and a BHA member.
The state of the nation debt is critical.
Do you want the US to be Greece.
We have a smart president. Give him some leeway!
JoseCuervo
New member
You know, you can always work on the Revenue side of the equation if you really care about the debt and the deficit.
noharleyyet
Well-known member
Jose, I'm toiling for the revenue side at the moment but for the last 8 years I haven't been doing enough according to the chosen one and his ardent moonbots.
grizzly_
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2013
- Messages
- 1,210
If you saw my ballot last year, you would've thought I was a raging liberal (hint: Trump was nowhere to be seen on it).
However, I sometimes think that the left-leaners tend to forget there is no such thing as "government spending". The government has no money of its own. There is no such thing as increasing or decreasing government spending as an overall effect of economic growth (unless you're printing money or borrowing from another country which virtually nobody supports). Every penny of "government spending" is literally money they took from one person and legislated it should be given to another, but the net effect of overall dollars is the same.
We, as a country, have lived outside our means for decades and that debt must be paid off. If your college-aged child had credit cards and income statements that were proportional to our country's, you'd be screaming at them to cut their spending, pay off their debts, and live within their means.
I mean my comments as a macro-critique and not specifically to LWCF, which I wholly support, but the spending cuts do have to come from somewhere and everybody must bear that burden to some degree.
The best thing we could do for taxes/spending would be to outlaw withholdings and force every citizen to write a quarterly check to the IRS and their State Tax Commission every three months. Only then would people appreciate how their taxes were being used and demand accountability. When the money never hits our account with our paycheck and then we get their a Tax Refund in the spring, we forget that the money was ours in the first place.
However, I sometimes think that the left-leaners tend to forget there is no such thing as "government spending". The government has no money of its own. There is no such thing as increasing or decreasing government spending as an overall effect of economic growth (unless you're printing money or borrowing from another country which virtually nobody supports). Every penny of "government spending" is literally money they took from one person and legislated it should be given to another, but the net effect of overall dollars is the same.
We, as a country, have lived outside our means for decades and that debt must be paid off. If your college-aged child had credit cards and income statements that were proportional to our country's, you'd be screaming at them to cut their spending, pay off their debts, and live within their means.
I mean my comments as a macro-critique and not specifically to LWCF, which I wholly support, but the spending cuts do have to come from somewhere and everybody must bear that burden to some degree.
The best thing we could do for taxes/spending would be to outlaw withholdings and force every citizen to write a quarterly check to the IRS and their State Tax Commission every three months. Only then would people appreciate how their taxes were being used and demand accountability. When the money never hits our account with our paycheck and then we get their a Tax Refund in the spring, we forget that the money was ours in the first place.
npaden
Well-known member
I think it needs to be done even though it will be at a direct hit to my pocket.
It's going to be a lot harder to turn this around than anyone realizes. The baby boomers are currently paying in taxes at historical numbers, not only are the taxes that they are paying in going to decrease, but they are going to start pulling out of social security and medicare at new record levels. On a small scale the defined benefit plans of companies that I deal with are already seeing the tremendous strain this creates and they are all scrambling around trying to patch holes through HUGE increases in pension expense. The Federal budget hasn't even started to really see this yet, but it is just a few years down the road. The Federal budget doesn't have any expense for future retirement benefits that are promised, they are on the pay as you go expense for that. The numbers aren't as big as the deficits Social Security and Medicare are looking at, but they have T's in the front of them.
8 Trillion added to the debt in 8 years is something that we are going to be dealing with for decades to come and it isn't going to be painless for anyone.
JoseCuervo
New member
I have had years I have paid lots of taxes, and other years where I paid YUGE and BIGLY amounts of taxes. I always have enjoyed the latter years over the former years.
Agree. Simply put.
Verdict is still out on the "smart President" outside of his wimpering rants over tweets, it is GREAT to see the Ds and Rs political spin machine get a really nice shake up.
It is not the Trumps that bring harm to our budget... it is the extreme right and left that bring our country to fiscal gridlock.
I found this to be most interesting...
JoseCuervo
New member
No, we haven't. We have purposely underspent for the last decade. Look at the studies on the conditions of our roads and bridges. We now see bridges COLLAPSING on a somewhat regular basis. (I missed the one north of Seattle toward Bellingham by about 10 minutes 6 years ago).
We have chosen not to invest in items that pay off long term. We should have been spending more on building the assets/infrastucture/people that will Make America Great AGain.
OriginalOscar
Active member
Jose being a good socialist can pay more since he's focused on the revenue side.
I support a convention of states to amend the US Constitution requiring balanced budget and term limits. Government for the people, by the people should manage it's budget like I balance mine!
I support a convention of states to amend the US Constitution requiring balanced budget and term limits. Government for the people, by the people should manage it's budget like I balance mine!
Nameless Range
Well-known member
This is what I am hearing from a lot of people. I'm not well-versed enough to have a strong opinion, but I trust Nemont.
One thing I am concerned about is the EPA cut(31%). I think people are incredibly naive and ignorant to the fact that we are still cleaning chit up from yesteryear. There are 17 Superfund sites in Montana, and only 4 have had work completed on them. Grant and contract freezes are preventing work from being done right now. In the decades to come, the Berkley Pit may very well reach the water table and pollute the Clark Fork River and a large portion of the Columbia Watershed. There is a creek a few miles from my house the emerges from the earth as orange as orange juice.
The reason we have prevented a heck of a lot of environmental disasters has been by work and funding from the EPA. When you're a filthy rich bottled-water drinkin billionaire what the F do you care about those hinterland folk? Most of em will vote for you anyway.
npaden
Well-known member
Yes, out of the entire budget proposal the EPA cuts are the most concerning to me.
Rainer
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 4, 2016
- Messages
- 732
So you guys currently spend around 600 Billion a year on defence and Trump wants to increase it by another 64 Billion. The next country that comes close to the US is China and they spend 215 Billion and Russia(your new boss) spends 66 Billion. Think about how much your country would benefit if you cut that budget by say 100 Billion. You would fund all the environmental departments, your poor infrastructure, education etc. Even he is cutting the IRS for his rich buddies. The IRS is the only department that makes money. Don't use that excuse the Obama increased your national debt because he wanted to. Have you forgot the man before him who started 2 wars on a credit card, who allowed the Wall Street to run wild and let the auto industry nearly collapse. Yes Obama orchestrated all that while being a small senator knowing he would be the next POTUS.
The only way you guys are ever going to actually succeed is if you join groups like Wolf Pac to get the money out of politics.
The only way you guys are ever going to actually succeed is if you join groups like Wolf Pac to get the money out of politics.
bobbydean
Well-known member
Jose, I pay many dollars in taxes, I almost reach the middle class income in taxes paid. I should pay taxes. Do not take most of the deductibles ( my brother thinks I am an idiot ).
Jose, you are a intelligent man.
Disagree with most you say.
Most Important issue if paying off or decreasing the US debt. We do not have monies for new projects; we are broke!
Point is, do not give refunds to those who pay no taxes. That is out right wrong!
Love your intellect, use your comment sense.
I Honestly hate politics!
Jose, you are a intelligent man.
Disagree with most you say.
Most Important issue if paying off or decreasing the US debt. We do not have monies for new projects; we are broke!
Point is, do not give refunds to those who pay no taxes. That is out right wrong!
Love your intellect, use your comment sense.
I Honestly hate politics!
Nemont
Well-known member
If you believe the U.S. debt is the main issue how exactly can you support a budget that still has massive deficits in it and doesn't cut a dime of total spending. The more I am exposed to Trump voters more I believe that Jonathan Gruber was a smart man, "We depend on the Stupidity of the American voter".
Nemont
Bingo. Why does the US have troops deployed in over 150 countries? It's time for the US to stop being the world's police force.
noharleyyet
Well-known member
You still pissed off about the latex probe? I hear the Donald is considering a northern border bandwidth wall and making Canada pay for it.
Zach
Well-known member
I'd say it's not under spending, but rather spending on the wrong things. It used to be a roads & bridges fund, now it's a pie sliced into way to many pieces.
I pucker every time I drive over any bridge, old or new.
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