Talk me out of the .308

Adam18 said:

Thanks to all who submitted suggestions

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You probably got more than you bargained for. Happens this time of year. The .308 is great. mtmuley

Southwind said:

One thing is for sure in shooting is you have to have confidence in what you are using. Had I had failures for whatever reason like Jose I would probably shy away from that cartridge as well.

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Exactly. I have gray hair. I killed my first big game animal when I was 12 years old with a Winchester Model 70 in .308Win. I have likely seen anywhere from 0-12 big game animals die every year, for more than a few decades.

I have seen animals killed with .220Swifts up to .378 Weatherbys, and everything in between. I have seen trophy animals under 30lbs killed, and I have seen multiple 1000+# bull moose in Alaska killed, and everywhere in between. I have seen animals killed in Africa, I have seen animals killed in Alaska, and everywhere in between. I have seen cute cuddly animals killed, and I have seen animals killed that would gladly eat a person for dinner. I have handloaded untold thousands of rounds of centerfire rifle ammo.

I have seen 2 bad experiences/rodeos episodes that didn't go well. Both were with the .308Win.

The OP asked to be talked out of the .308. In my experience, and, in my gun safe, there are better choices.

Lots of great endorsements for the.308 Win. The number one, all time best endorsement that cannot be outdone: JoseCuervo says it's a lousy cartridge.

Myself, I have not owned one since 1968, but now I'm starting to re-think that.

sagebrush said:

lots of great endorsements for the.308 win. The number one, all time best endorsement that cannot be outdone: Josecuervo says it's a lousy cartridge.

Myself, i have not owned one since 1968, but now i'm starting to re-think that.

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lmao!

Hard To Do

Adam18 said:

Looking at making the purchase on a .308, specifically the Howa 1500, (the new kuiu rifle looks nice as well) however I'm open to more options. I'd really like the alpine mtn. Rifle, but for the cost, I'd rather spend my money on a great scope, and a slightly heavier rifle. My hunting I've the next several years will mostly be whitetail, with the hopes to go on an elk hunt within the next 5. With as much success I have seen on this forum and the OYOA show with the 308 or 7mm08, be really taken a liking to this round (308). The only hiccup is the more I talk to people, the more they think I am crazy that an elk gun can be a .308. I think with a properly placed shot at 300 yards or less and quality ammo, this is an elk killer. I don't want to be under gunned for 25 percent of my hunts (elk) and over gunned for 75 percent of my hunts (deer, antelope, coyote, fun to shoot at the range and enlighten low recoil my youngest will like to shoot), and have chosen .308 as my caliber......now talk me out of it, am I missing something? I am NOT a gun guy by no means and am very swayed by others opinion because frankly, I don't know any better.

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It's nearly impossible, for anyone with experience with the .308, to say anything derogatory about it. It's simply a fantastic cartridge with ample ballistic performance, and decades of proven history, for any animal you are after in the lower 48. Also, it's hard to beat the Howa 1500. Both are a proven combination you can't go wrong with. With the .308, you will not be under-gunned at all, provided you use quality bullets. The same holds true for being over-gunned. You simply have to adjust the bullet choice to effectively do the job you are performing.

Although I don't own a Howa, I have the TC Dimension, with barrels for the 22-250, 308, and 300 WinMag. I chose this rifle because I'm a big fan of modular systems allowing me to change to a particular cartridge given my particular needs. I'm able, with this rifle, in all calibers, .5 inch groups at 100 yards. So, the choice of the TC Dimension is merely a personal preference, and one I've been happy with. Bottom line, like Randy says, "if you shoot it well, it's a rifle to stay with", and use with confidence.

Finally, if you've been hunting for any period of time, then you are aware of the passionate nature of hunters regarding cartridges. Frankly, it's an un-winnable discussion and one I don't get involved in with other hunters. I like to think I know my ballistics and I know how well my cartridge will shoot. The issue is shot placement and the ability to put the bullet where it needs to be when the time comes. So, do not let anyone suggest to you that a .308 is not effective on large antlered game. Those individuals are simply misinformed and likely bound to their own choice of caliber. That's fine. The .308 is more than enough gun for ALL North American big game animals.

Welcome to the results of asking caliber or cartridge opinions to a bunch of passionate individuals. This happens on every forum. So you have the usual answers. 1 guy saying, "My gosh no! Why I would never hunt with anything larger than a squirrel with less than a .648 X 200mm howitzyboomearthshaker!"

Then the ballistics guy will start chiming in about having 13 inches less of drop at 10 miles with a 4mm x 50BMG Bangwizz custom wildcat because he likes hunting in at least 2 different zip codes from where he is standing.

Then somebody will start in with needing a precise amount of energy and if it transfers in any way deviant to the bullets computer graphics design every animal on the planet will flick the flattened slug off of it's hide and walk away.

The only one I haven't seen yet is the, "I once stopped an entire herd of charging Elephant in the upper Congo of Canada with nothing more than a precisely place single shot from a 22 Mag and THAT was overkill!" guy. Seriously guys we need to find that guy. Is he ok?! Maybe he finally got trampled.

Not that there is anything wrong with any of those guys. They are just very passionate and before they get pissed I have to admit I am one. I have everything from a 22 lr to a semi custom 300 ultra and an old 45-70. In reality a 308 win will work fine for everything you are going to do in the lower 48. My first rifle was a model 70 in 308 and I shot mule deer and cow elk for years with with cheap, soft point, store bought ammo. Just know your range limits and make good shots. A 308 will not excel in the extreme long range or high energy areas but it really never was designed to. It it what it is, a fine mid range low recoil cartridge. If you want something that preforms very well in the above categories you may want to look at another choice. Because all the extremes in the areas are actually correct. A 308 won't knock a grizzly down, shoot 1000 yards without a lot of drop, you will need good bullets, and you need to shoot well. That is the only reason I have for you to not buy one. A 308 is pretty cheap to shoot so you will have plenty of practice. Which is why it was my first rifle. Good luck and good hunting.

Bowhunter60 said:

So, do not let anyone suggest to you that a .308 is not effective on large antlered game. Those individuals are simply misinformed and likely bound to their own choice of caliber. That's fine. The .308 is more than enough gun for ALL North American big game animals.

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Did you even read the OP's request and title to the thread?


I am neither "misinformed" nor "bound to their own choice of caliber".

The OP wants talked out of the .308Win, and I gladly attempted. With information.


And, I am far from bound to an "own choice of caliber", as I stated I love the .243win and will likely be buying a 7mm-08, both based on the same case as the .308win, in the next few months, to go with a bunch of other great calibers in my safe.

I should likely sell my .308win, but, to this point in my life, I have never sold a gun, and can't see starting now. So, I will be adding a gun this year, just like I did last year.

JoseCuervo said:

Did you even read the OP's request and title to the thread?


I am neither "misinformed" nor "bound to their own choice of caliber".

The OP wants talked out of the .308Win, and I gladly attempted. With information.


And, I am far from bound to an "own choice of caliber", as I stated I love the .243win and will likely be buying a 7mm-08, both based on the same case as the .308win, in the next few months, to go with a bunch of other great calibers in my safe.

I should likely sell my .308win, but, to this point in my life, I have never sold a gun, and can't see starting now. So, I will be adding a gun this year, just like I did last year.

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If you give me the 308 you can keep your streak of not selling guns intact... Especially if it's a lefty!

JoseCuervo said:

Did you even read the OP's request and title to the thread?


I am neither "misinformed" nor "bound to their own choice of caliber".

The OP wants talked out of the .308Win, and I gladly attempted. With information.


And, I am far from bound to an "own choice of caliber", as I stated I love the .243win and will likely be buying a 7mm-08, both based on the same case as the .308win, in the next few months, to go with a bunch of other great calibers in my safe.

I should likely sell my .308win, but, to this point in my life, I have never sold a gun, and can't see starting now. So, I will be adding a gun this year, just like I did last year.

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Tequila,

Your level of angst at my comments is a bit funny and validates my point that these kinds of discussions essentially lead no where. My comments were neither derogatory or pointed at anyone. Firedude sums it up very well and I suspect understands how these campfire conversations really are an exercise in futility. So, climb off your throne, stop pointing out soundbytes and hear the entire message. If you had heard the entire point of my post, it was nothing but praise for the venerable .308. As for your choice .243 and 7mm-08, great caliber choices. Shoot them accurately and they will do the job.

Good Hunting,

Of that I have no doubt

noharleyyet said:

Actually, Jose is a very decent and highly intelligent fellow whose comments often precipitate impetuous ill-tempered reactions...most of which he anticipates and parries.

But don't tell anyone I said that.

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Harley,

I'm quite sure MacTequila is a decent guy, who, like most hunters has strong opinions about equipment choices. That's perfectly fine and well within his right to voice as vociferously as he wants his opinions. That said, given the tenor of his responses; which I think could be toned down, it's not surprising he elicits the kind of comments he does. To each his own. All I can say, specific to this forum post, the .308 Win, is a time tested incredible choice for any hunter.:hump: I've had great success with mine, one shot kills, no mishaps ever. But, I know it's limitations and stay within it's abilities to humanely take down my animal. Not sure why BigDaddyTequila's experience with the venerable .308 Win was less than good, but he might consider removing some of the gold chains and white fur. Doing so might allow him to get within the effective range of the round.

Nameless Range said:

You may as well be telling Royce Gracie Jujitsu doesn't work as he chokes you unconscious.

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I have done exactly that (jokingly) and he proceeded to choke me to sleep
We've been friends for almost 27 years! That's my baby face between Royce and Rorian in 1993... WOW... I'm old.


ok... back to arguing about calibers, and cartridges

Am i too late to this party?

If i had to pick 1 caliber as a go-to...it would be the .308.
there are so many good bullet/ammunition choices out there. I have spent alot of time behind .308 and know it very well. Running 175gr out to 800m....harvesting med size game... i just dont see what it cannot do with the average shooter.

I think this is a case of know your rig, and know it well. The caliber debates are always funny to me because many lack the confidence/knowledge and skill to push the envelope of the cartridges they are debating.

If you are comfortable shooting a .308...or a .338 bazooka mag or whatever it is...then use it and dont look back!
Many times the fix should be applied to the shooter and not to the gear or ammo.

JohnCushman said:

There's a reason military snipers use .308's....

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i think youre on to something there...

Adam18 said:

I drink old Milwaukee, old style, and keystone light.....I'm not certain I'm cool enough for the 6.5.

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i like the 6.5 CM...im a ways away from hipster though.
theres just something about hitting steel at 950 yards with only 8.5 mils dialed though...

Formidilosus said:

Because it's free. The big military is a decaying beast that is 20-30 years behind the civilian community in pretty much every aspect. The 308 is a fine cartridge, but mil snipers aren't using it because it's the best, they do so because it's what's issued and in the system.






As for the 308 and elk (or any NA animal) put it into the chest same as a 300 RUM, 375, or 458win. Find the minimal expansion velocity of your bullet- that's the max range in general. There is no magic in bullets or terminal ballistics.

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im sorry but the .308 is still a player even in this day and age. many of us would prefer to use the .308 because its proven. we know what it does. most engagements arent outside of the .308's capability.
the army's solution with the m2010 was a band aid fix and let me tell you....the barrel life and weapon system weight makes it very hard to justify its existence. meanwhile...the m110 and the new CSASS m110a1 will keep on trucking.

Matt-LSI said:

the army's solution with the m2010 was a band aid fix and let me tell you....the barrel life and weapon system weight makes it very hard to justify its existence.

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Until you visit AFG. Then the extra 600ish meters makes a big difference.

MinnesotaHunter said:

Until you visit AFG. Then the extra 600ish meters makes a big difference.

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ive gotten to play with a few "new solutions" there is cool stuff on the horizon for that exact issue.

Adam18 said:

The only hiccup is the more I talk to people, the more they think I am crazy that an elk gun can be a .308

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I think you need to quit talking to those people. They clearly don't know what THEY are talking about.

Have you ever looked at a long-range hunting forum? On those sites, it seems like anything under a 155mm Howitzer is insufficient for elk...A good shot with a .243 will do the job!

Don't be talked out of a .308. Just don't. It's a great, all-around, general-purpose big game cartridge. Possibly the best, IMO.

And magnums are largely overrated, unless you're trying to shoot game over 300 yards away, which is something most hunters don't have the skill to do anyway, honestly.