Quiet Waters Act Proposed by The Back country Hunters and Anglers

Welder247 said:

This is aimed at powerboats, expressly jet boats. The jet boat community already compromised on the upper Yellowstone in the early 80's which was a mistake because here we are again.

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Cheer up, I never had the chance to compromise on anything, it was just taken from me as a shore/wading fisherman that doesn't really appreciate jet boats roaring up and down the river. I also don't appreciate a constant barrage of drift boats, white water rafters, guides, kayaks, inner-tubes, etc.

What about that group of sportsmen? They just got to pound sand without a single compromise on any of it. I had to give up fishing the big water of my youth and surrender it to the drift boats, jet boats, rafts, kayaks, guided clients, etc. I was forced to retreat to smaller streams that wouldn't float water craft. I've been told on this very thread, well, that's progress, things change.

Sorry if I have little tolerance or sympathy for your "rights" on jet boats...nobody cared about mine either. Still don't.

I view this proposal as long over-due and wish someone would have gotten in front of this issue a couple decades ago. Better late than never.

BuzzH said:

Its funny the selective reading that goes on...

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Also funny how a couple of folks come out of the woodwork to spread such garbage as "The quiet waters proposal is a guide/outfitter sponsored initiative." for their first post, then have another guy with a couple of posts back him up.

BTW, happy 9000 posts Buzz.

Can you explain that last sentence you don't want them in every place and yet you operate them on land and water?

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Yes, for most of my life I have water skied, fished, camped, and enjoyed power boats on lakes and larger rivers. But I have also canoed Wild & Scenic Missouri River, Shoshone Lake, and other places where I hope motorized boats will continue to be limited or prohibited. I own a Polaris RZR and enjoy recreating and using it for transporting, but when I hike and camp in the Bob or other special and quiet public lands, I don't take motors, nor want to hear and smell motorized vehicles ripping around.

Second are you threatening motorboat operators? If they invade your personal bubble on the water?

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I'm truly sorry if you interpreted a threat from my comments. "Angst" is a term implying internal stress, certainly not necessarily manifesting into violence.

Conversely, from your strong comments, is it fair for me to conclude that you desire to be able to motorize to everywhere you wish to go and to heck with anyone else's "personal bubble" of recreational relaxation?

New member yes, I have visited this site frequently in the past and do enjoy the stories and pictures as well as these types of things. It's very interesting to see where some of these things seem to go. I have been watching this thread pretty close from the outside and I can see points expressed by both sides. So because I'm a sports man like all of you guys, I thought I would throw my opinion in on this. Straight arrow, I'm not out there to invade anyone's "bubble" people have all kinds of different ways of recreation. I'm not a motor head that's out there just because I love the sound of 2 stokes tearing up and down the rivers and trails. In fact, when I'm in the backcountry myself I enjoy the piece and quiet because there isn't any roads or atv trails for miles and the scenery is unmatched by anything.

Buzz, curious to what your referring to on being moved from larger rivers to tiny streams? If your referring to the general public recreating and doing their own personal way on the the waters whether floating or boating, and somehow that forced you to small secluded streams. That's your own decision, I myself still wade fish on many rivers and streams as well as many other people I know. I still enjoy it today just as much as yesterday.

tinesup406 said:

Buzz, curious to what your referring to on being moved from larger rivers to tiny streams? If your referring to the general public recreating and doing their own personal way on the the waters whether floating or boating, and somehow that forced you to small secluded streams. That's your own decision, I myself still wade fish on many rivers and streams as well as many other people I know. I still enjoy it today just as much as yesterday.

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The reason that I fish, is to relax, not get my blood pressure up. I don't fish for conflict, but that's exactly what was "rammed down my throat" by jet boats, rafters, kayakers, guided fishermen, etc. etc. etc.

I found nothing fun or entertaining about a thunder jet parking 30 feet off shore back-trolling plugs after they saw me land a steelhead. I didn't find it fun when I casted a 2/0 hook into their boat and tried to rip a few thousand dollars worth of gloomis rods out of their boat either and send that 2/0 through their hand. In particular when I purposely fished water that held less fish to avoid that type of shit.

I don't appreciate having my line ran over by kayakers, rafters, and drift boats. Don't particularly care for a drift boat of guided fishermen parking on the other side of the seam I'm fishing, casting over my line, getting tangled up, rather than drift by to the next hole. Want me to go on or do you get the point?

If you're happy with that kind of experience and are willing to "enjoy" that kind of "experience"...good for you. I'm not. Maybe you don't have the luxury of knowing what it was like prior to me giving it all up for the sake of "progress".

I walked away from all that mess, I found myself enjoying fishing less and less on big water due to the crowds, the selfish behavior, the lack of anyone giving a shit about anything but themselves.

Bottom line, (pun there), I had no choice in the matter, I didn't have a voice. I did 100% of the compromising and now, guys like you tell me, that I have to just "accept it". My only recourse was to fish smaller water, where drift boats, kayaks, jet boats, rafters, and outfitters didn't.

I don't have to "accept" anything, and IMO, this quiet waters initiative is a step in the right direction to opening up the discussion to a real compromise. A way to start the conversation on not only jet boats, but the over-use and conflicting uses of Montana's rivers. This isnt the end all, be all, of this issue, its the first step. Maybe, just maybe, guys like me that were forced out will be able to see to it that someone else does some compromising for once.

BuzzH said:

Maybe, just maybe, guys like me that were forced out will be able to see to it that someone else does some compromising for once.

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Thank you. It's very easy to overlook the fact that somewhere along the way, someone else already has been affected. There are many places I don't fish anymore because of the same things you referenced.

tinesup406 said:

That's your own decision, I myself still wade fish on many rivers and streams as well as many other people I know. I still enjoy it today just as much as yesterday.

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Everyone has different tolerance levels. For instance, I am what most people would consider overly sensitive. I lose some joy in the outdoors just seeing a satellite race through the stars at night. Other people think it's cool and others don't even notice it. Some people don't mind being surrounded by a herd of cattle in the movie theater, feeding on pop corn like ruminants chewing cud. It ruins the movie for me. So yes, it's my decision to not go.

However, I think a logical argument between differing positions should start with an agreed-upon baseline. When it comes to outdoor experiences, is the baseline nature, absent man and his contraptions (you know, the reason most people go out there)? Or is the baseline nature with man and his contraptions as things are now (you know, like the city)? Regardless, it would be illogical to set a baseline as a set of conditions that don't yet exist.

The decision on baseline can also assign burdens. If the baseline is nature without man and his contraptions, then man and his contraptions should petition for access. If the baseline is nature with man and his contraptions, then nature should petition for protection. Are we rolling out, rolling back, or trying to maintain a status quo?

Essentially telling Buzz to be like you, and get a thicker skin, can come back to bite you when *your* personal tolerance threshold is violated and *you* are stuck pining for the good old days when the baseline was to *your* liking.

James Riley said:

Essentially telling Buzz to be like you, and get a thicker skin, can come back to bite you when *your* personal tolerance threshold is violated and *you* are stuck pining for the good old days when the baseline was to *your* liking.

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I don't know you get that out of my comment, I never said anything of the sort. Buzz is buzz and I am myself, he obviously has a different belief then I do and that's fine with me. There are all walks of life in this world and that's fine. Maybe with this whole compromise thing that's being brought up by the supporters that's got the opposers of the petition on such an edge is what you summed up earlier in the thread with your pie metaphor. It will never stop

tinesup406 said:

I don't know you get that out of my comment, I never said anything of the sort.

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I guess knowing what you know ("he obviously has a different belief then I do and that's fine with me. There are all walks of life in this world and that's fine") rendered your question to him ("Buzz, curious to what your referring to on being moved from larger rivers to tiny streams? If your referring to the general public recreating and doing their own personal way on the the waters whether floating or boating, and somehow that forced you to small secluded streams. That's your own decision, I myself still wade fish on many rivers and streams as well as many other people I know. I still enjoy it today just as much as yesterday") somewhat superfluous, absent the implication I pulled from it.

I didn't think you'd do that so I made the assumption. Apparently I was wrong. Which makes me wonder why you asked it if you knew the answer?

Boy buzz you must of had some real bad experiences in your life, that's too bad. I can't believe that it pisses you off so much that it would cause you to want to rip someone's hard earned dollar setup right outta the back of whatever vessel they have. You, JLS, maybe a few others your probably the same bunch of guys that gives the boat besides your own whether floating or motorized the finger or the look when whenever they come by you on the water.

tinesup406 said:

Boy buzz you must of had some real bad experiences in your life, that's too bad. I can't believe that it pisses you off so much that it would cause you to want to rip someone's hard earned dollar setup right outta the back of whatever vessel they have. You, JLS, maybe a few others your probably the same bunch of guys that gives the boat besides your own whether floating or motorized the finger or the look when whenever they come by you on the water.

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You're really putting a lot of posts up for a newbie without doing much thinking about who you're talking to that have been on this site a long, long, time and that you know nothing about in the short time you've been spouting off!

tinesup406 said:

You, JLS, maybe a few others your probably the same bunch of guys that gives the boat besides your own whether floating or motorized the finger or the look when whenever they come by you on the water.

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Actually, I just look for places where I don't have to deal with others.

Being an asshole is completely independent of your stance and view on watercraft usage, be it motorized or non-motorized. To reiterate, increased use already means that someone, somewhere along the way has given up something in terms of how they used a resource. To imply that they didn't is foolish. Yes, watercraft users are being asked to give up something, and some of the rest of us already have.

tinesup,

To further answer your question, last fall I was waiting for a guy to fish on down through a steelhead run. He was taking his own sweet time in re-rigging his line, but I patiently waited for him. While doing so, I tried to strike up conversation, and he was somewhat of an abrupt ass. Taking the hint, I waited a little while longer before asking him if I could drop below him 100 yards and fish on out. He replied (all the while still fiddle farting with his gear) "I'm going to fish that water".

I said "have a good day" and found a different hole, where I landed one fish and lost two others, so no I don't waste time or energy on assholes if it's avoidable. That said, until you have been bank fishing for steelhead, and have some jackwad anchor or drift his boat right across the water you're fishing on, it's hard to understand how irritating it is. I've had guide boats come in less than 20 yards off shore and cast right in to the bank where I was fishing from. You can bet your bottom dollar I gave them more than "a look".

Haha, relax guys I'm sure your both decent guys just put there enjoying Gods gifts. I have a pretty dry sense of humor. For a hunting website there isn't much for people chiming in that have jet boats here. There's gotta be more then the 5 or 6 that have commented.

tinesup406 said:

Boy buzz you must of had some real bad experiences in your life, that's too bad. I can't believe that it pisses you off so much that it would cause you to want to rip someone's hard earned dollar setup right outta the back of whatever vessel they have.

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Boy tinesup406, you must not have fished much and/or lived a sheltered life...

For the record, I don't suffer fools and don't tolerate rude behavior on the water. The men I learned to fish from didn't either...and if you wanted to fish like an asshole, you were corrected quickly and "asked" to take your foolishness elsewhere.

For a hunting website there isn't much for people chiming in that have jet boats here.

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Among the hundreds of thousands of hunters and fishermen enjoying Montana's waters, just how many do you think own jet boats?

Straight Arrow said:

Among the hundreds of thousands of hunters and fishermen enjoying Montana's waters, just how many do you think own jet boats?

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If I could afford the boat and the gas, I would have one. :W:

Me too ... but that was not the question!

tinesup406 said:

Haha, relax guys I'm sure your both decent guys just put there enjoying Gods gifts. I have a pretty dry sense of humor. For a hunting website there isn't much for people chiming in that have jet boats here. There's gotta be more then the 5 or 6 that have commented.

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I have a jet boat and support the initiative. I do believe there is room for compromise on the Yellowstone and Missouri.