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Suppresors in Montana

marksjeep said:
Senate bill is up. https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/senate-bill/59

I will be supporting this effort.

Question for those that run suppressors. How much does your POI shift with/without the suppressor attached? I preach shooting practice/proficiency to my kids and to folks I have introduced to hunting. If there is a device that I can use to mitigate muzzle blast, recoil, and noise during range sessions with their big game rifles, I'd very much encourage it's use at the range. That leads to increased practice rounds down range and ultimately better shooting skills. I can see the argument that suppressors add bulk and detract from the balance of a big game rifle when in the field hunting. But, I also see almost no disadvantage to using one at the range, other than a possible POI shift, which can likely be dealt with by a quick rezero of the scope during your final range session. So, how much POI shift do you see with/without the suppressor attached?
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IME, POI will shift. Usually a suppressed rifle will shoot lower than the same rifle non-suppressed. There is a process that i believe is called "clocking" that can make the POI be the same. I'd imagine its rather spendy seeing as DTA does it to their rifles.
 
fishing4sanity said:
Rob, I'm a suppressor fan for the range and hunting, not trying to stir things up, but how does a suppressor contribute to wounding an animal? A suppressor will actually slightly increase velocity and the reduction in recoil and 'boom' definitely help me to shoot more accurately. As to home invasion, I'm shooting the gun however it is setup at that second, but I do have a friend with permanent tinnitus from a single shot taken indoors. My main question was about wounding game, because in a home invasion rather the weapon at hand is suppressed or not, doesn't enter into the equation of rather or not to use the gun.
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I was referring to the need for subsonic loads so the noise is truly suppressed. I have permanent hearing loss and tinnitus mostly due to a lot of 22LR shooting as a kid - you don't need a huge bang. Without the subsonic ammo the sonic crack is still pretty loud so hearing is still being damaged. I wear hearing protection for all my hunting now and it isn't that big of a deal to get some. Even the best will be a hell of a lot cheaper than a single suppressor.

Schmalts.. geeze man... you don't have to think too hard to see I meant alerting the neighbors, not scare the attacker. Nothing gets attention like the sound of shots being fired. I suspect a couple of shots indoors does a lot less damage than a few years of hunting.

Tacticool is probably the best summary of what I think this is mostly about. The gun industry gets to sell more expensive gizmos so people can be tacticool. JMO...
 
RobG, sorry about the tinnitus, it's the most annoying thing I deal with and on bad days really affects my hearing. When I first got hearing aids it seemed to really help the tinnitus, but anymore the difference they make on tinnitus seems minimal. I would think that sub-sonic rounds would be a bad idea for hunting, never have used them, but I assume energy is sub-standard pretty quick.
 
As soon as these suppressors are the size of a muzzle brake, I'm gonna have a bunch of them. As of now, considering the cost vs benefit. No way. And Buzz is spot on with his assessment of these things. mtmuley
 
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RobG said:
I was referring to the need for subsonic loads so the noise is truly suppressed. I have permanent hearing loss and tinnitus mostly due to a lot of 22LR shooting as a kid - you don't need a huge bang. Without the subsonic ammo the sonic crack is still pretty loud so hearing is still being damaged. I wear hearing protection for all my hunting now and it isn't that big of a deal to get some. Even the best will be a hell of a lot cheaper than a single suppressor.

Schmalts.. geeze man... you don't have to think too hard to see I meant alerting the neighbors, not scare the attacker. Nothing gets attention like the sound of shots being fired. I suspect a couple of shots indoors does a lot less damage than a few years of hunting.
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why are you concerned about alerting the neighbors?? geeze man. Kill the intruder, save your ears so you can hear the 911 operator when you call them to come take the POS out of your house.... And I would argue that a couple shots fired indoors are just as bad or worse that a lot of shots outdoors. I about gave myself tinnitus for not having the barrel all the way out of a popup blind when turkey hunting, ears rang for 3 days. Never had them ring once from shooting out in the open when hunting.
 
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mtmuley said:
As soon as these suppressors are the size of a muzzle brake, I'm gonna have a bunch of them. As of now, considering the cost vs benefit. No way. And Buzz is spot on with his assessment of these things. mtmuley
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Do you have kids? I have daughters, and they will be introduced to shooting with a suppressed .22 and ear protection. We know way more about hearing loss now than even when I was a kid 30 years ago. I wish I'd been far more careful about protecting my ears when I was younger. Saving lots of money on treatment for future hearing loss, hearing aids, and audiology bills, there's a cost vs. benefit analysis for you...
 
LuketheDog said:
Do you have kids? I have daughters, and they will be introduced to shooting with a suppressed .22 and ear protection. We know way more about hearing loss now than even when I was a kid 30 years ago. I wish I'd been far more careful about protecting my ears when I was younger. Saving lots of money on treatment for future hearing loss, hearing aids, and audiology bills, there's a cost vs. benefit analysis for you...
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Yeah, I have kids. No hearing loss here. Your analysis is a poor one. mtmuley
 
Just as in NZ, if suppressors weren't regulated, or became less so, they would be on nearly every gun in use. Just like a lot of subjects- faster barrel twists, good bullets, 6.5Creed, scope that work, etc, etc.... those that shoot the least can't savvy the appeal. Those that shoot the most immeaditately understand.


In no particular order, and all else being the same, the benefits of a suppressed gun are-

1) almost total reduction of muzzle blast
2) significant reduction in recoil
3) significant reduction in muzzle flip
4) significant reduction in noise
5) slight increase in velocity
6) slight increase in accuracy (both precision and accuracy)




The only firearms that suppressors negatively effect the handling to the point of "meh" are pistols.
 
mtmuley said:
As soon as these suppressors are the size of a muzzle brake, I'm gonna have a bunch of them. As of now, considering the cost vs benefit. No way. And Buzz is spot on with his assessment of these things. mtmuley
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I refuse to hunt with a muzzle brake. I hammered my buddies ears with one while hunting and I just don't want that to hand appen again.

We all have different preferences and it doesn't mean one is more right than another. I know you said you shot a couple different suppressed AR's but I'm curious how much time you have spent behind a suppressor? I wasn't real impressed with a suppressed AR when I shot one for the first time either. I'm by no means trying to change your mind about them. I could care less what you think about them but it just sounds like you have very limited experience with them. You can stick to your obnoxious muzzle and I'll stick to my quiet rifles and we can all be happy
 
Hugely reducing the noise and recoil, and being able to see bullet strikes on longer shots through your scope are the pros. Cost and weight are the cons. I think most of those who have used one, would probably want one. My daughter borrowed a suppressed rifle this past season and she really liked it..
Olivia's Mule deer.jpgolivia's-antelope.jpg
 
mtmuley said:
Yeah, I have kids. No hearing loss here. Your analysis is a poor one. mtmuley
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Ah, you're an expert in the field then? Hearing damage does not mean total hearing loss, and it often goes unnoticed until it's too late, and it is irreparable, fyi...Or are you just arguing for the sake of it?
 
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BuzzH said:
Does seem like there is a lot of effort is put into making a hunting rifle light and handy...only to add weight and awkwardness with a suppressor.

Not to mention the cost, not sure how it all pencils out as a win?
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That is what i have been saying, you have the perfect engineered rifle, that balances perfectly, then you stick a scaffold pipe on the end and it, makes it awkward and unbalanced, i will be selling mine very soon.

Cheers

Richard
 
LuketheDog said:
Ah, you're an expert in the field then? Hearing damage does not mean total hearing loss, and it often goes unnoticed until it's too late, and it is irreparable, fyi...Or are you just arguing for the sake of it?
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Glad you like your suppressors Luke. mtmuley
 
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