Mountain Biking / Backcountry

mgiuliani · Jun 28, 2016

I am interested in gaining perspective from backcountry hunters regarding mountain biking. One clarification I'd like to make is that I am considering backcountry hunting as those areas closed to motorized travel, several miles behind a locked gate/posted trailhead, yet obviously this land cannot be wilderness as wheeled travel is prohibited by federal law.
Potential discussion points:
1. Who hunts from a mountain bike, specifically in the backcountry?
2. Do backcountry hunters on horseback object to those on mountain bikes?
3. Can horseman, mountain bikers, and hunters on foot share trail without conflict?
4. Does seeing a mountain biker on a backcountry trail detract from the hunting experience for some folks?
5. Should mountain bikes be allowed on all of the same trails as horse and foot travel or should there be designated bike trails?

Any and all feedback is welcome on this topic!

hank4elk · Jun 28, 2016

I crashed and burned too many times on bikes & horses so I ride both on my ranch now.........when I do. LOL

Southern Elk · Jun 28, 2016

In most of the backcountry areas that I've hunted (those with hiking/horse trails) a bicycle would be a hinderance. I could hike much easier. Now if you're talking about gated logging roads, I could see where a bike could really help you cover some ground.

Frenchy · Jun 28, 2016

Yep. Biking up hill on sigletrack trails is not for the faint of heart. It requires a fitness level beyond what most people are capable of. And even then its damn near as fast to walk as it is to bike if not faster. Going downhill well thats another scenario all together. Consider strongly the difficulty of the trail, and your skill/fitness level on a bike.

With that said, they can be a very useful means of back-country transportation just know your limitations.

mountainbikehunter · Jun 28, 2016

1. I hunt byThis will be my second year hunting via mountain bike. I have learned lots of lessons since then and I can give you whatever information you need.
2. The bike does not interfere with horses if you are respectful, ie. make sure your brakes don't squeak so you don't spook horses.
3. I share trails with all the above with minimal difficulty, its all about being respectful. Mountain bikes can be very fast and dangerous to a person or hors it they cut out in front of you.
4. The bike itself is very quiet and doesn't interfere with anyone hunting, besides the fact of another humans presence. Nobody likes someone going thru their hunting spot, but I hunt public land so its to be expected.
5. I don't think their needs to be designated trails as long as you are respectful and use common sense regarding safety and noise.

Give me a shout if you have any questions about my set up.

SteveE · Jun 28, 2016

I use them in a few spots.

Biggest issue I have is looking up with my pack fully loaded. It forces my head forward and when I stand to pedal all I see is handlebars. Kinda like it going up hill cause I can't tell I still have a looonnnggg ways to go but going downhill in the dark with headlamp gets flat out dangerous with my set up.

I run an eblerstock pack and its the rifle stock keeping me from looking up.

What kind of pack do you use?

mgiuliani · Jun 28, 2016

@mountainbikehunter
I also hunt from my mountain bike. My goal with this topic was more oriented to gain perspective from all sides and specifically to see if the general consensus is that mountain bikes belong in the backcountry along with horses.

Appreciate everyone's input thus far!

mgiuliani · Jun 28, 2016

@SteveE - I use a KUIU ICON PRO 1850. So far it works great while I'm on the bike!... I carry my rifle strapped to the side of the pack.

SteveE · Jun 30, 2016

Sorry for high jacking your post mgiuliani - i will bump it back up.

The Eberlestock has the rifle center of pack so maybe I will switch to my freighter with a sode mount on my next trip.

I don't know if you will get much support for the bikes. Not real sure why so many dislike the idea but we had this discussion not long ago.

Old habits die hard I guess. I've had people say they dont want to see "packs of bikers racing through the wilderness". These folks have obviously never used a mtn bike on a mountainous trail. There is absolutely no racing about it - it is slow going and strenuous. The only reason I even use one is due to extreme distance. After walking 20 plus miles my hips are sore. I have 7 miles of closed logging road that is pretty mnt bike friendly so I use the bike cause my feet are about to fall off!

Also heard the bilkes spread weeds. I paid attention this spring and I'am 100% positive I hit (spread) more weeds walking. The weed seeds stick to my over priced Sitka pants walking. I never have seeds on me from riding. I think its due to the narrower profile on the bike.

I use to own and hunt off horses - I brushed hundreds of weed seeds from my horse everytime I rode. I Was young and could not afford to feed certifide hay all year so would grab the required weed free hay on the way to camp. My horse would chit weed seed every few hours for the first two days I was there. All that certifide hay got chit out back at my property. That system is a joke.

BUT, old habits die hard. I have mixed feelings about wilderness areas. The ones near me are pretty much unhuntable unless you have a horse packer simply because of distance. You can only pack freah meat for so long before it spoils.

I hike into the Bob every year for the early hunt but I know better then to shoot anything that far in - it becomes an ethical thing. I go cause I love it but it does get under my skin that olny horse owners can hunt it.

Good luck!

Flatland Crusoe · Jun 30, 2016

mgiuliani said:
@mountainbikehunter
I also hunt from my mountain bike. My goal with this topic was more oriented to gain perspective from all sides and specifically to see if the general consensus is that mountain bikes belong in the backcountry along with horses.

Appreciate everyone's input thus far!

Generally speaking the answer to that is something along the lines of we didn't have mountain bikes when we created wilderness areas 50 years ago so they can't be considered, at least that's the discussion on this board. Mountain bikes have a reputation issue because people think of the red bull rampage extreme style of biking as the norm rather than XC riding. I totally think they belong for a lot of reasons.

From a practice perspective I feel you need to be pretty light and fast to make use of a bike and you need reasonable terrain to make the speed and effort worth it. I've definitely used a mountain bike to ride down levee's duck hunting and have seriously considered them for antelope hunts where there are big pieces of public you can walk to, but that are locked out to vehicles because of lack of continuous trail across public land. I find bike are most valuable for scouting and covering a lot of group on the front end of a hunt. I'll definitely be taking mine with me to Wyoming this fall to ride Sketchy 4x4 and ATV roads while I'm getting a handle on the area.

mgiuliani · Jul 1, 2016

Two days after starting this conversation a mountain biker is killed by a, yet to be confirmed, grizzly bear near GNP. Crazy coincidence. I looked through records online and found zero prior incidences of a bear killing a human while riding a bike. I believe all those who frequent bear country can attest to the inherent risk we face, no matter the mode of travel and experience level. This is just a gut wrenching awful tragedy. Sincere condolences to Brad Treat's family.

Southern Elk · Jul 1, 2016

^Wrong place at the wrong time. It would have happened just the same if he was on foot.

RobG · Jul 1, 2016

If weeds can stick to your pants while hiking they can stick while biking so you should be careful as you can cover so much more distance biking. Everyone should carry a ziplock and put the seeds they pick up in the ziplock. Maybe I'll start a "bag your weed" campaign

Biking here is controversial because of conflicts. In some places they can be used only on certain days and other places they aren't allowed. They can startle horses. No problem if you see them in advance and can pull over, but you may be so concerned with negotiating the trail that you don't notice them. I may try biking an old road to get into an elk hunting area, but I am worried about riding with a pack on.

SteveE · Jul 7, 2016

RobG said:
If weeds can stick to your pants while hiking they can stick while biking so you should be careful as you can cover so much more distance

I may try biking an old road to get into an elk hunting area, but I am worried about riding with a pack on.

In all do respect this is just not true in my experience. Throw a heavy pack on and try a mountain trail. You can not cover so much more ground - at least I cant and Im in decent shape. I've used both horses and bikes - a horse will cover way more ground. Not even close. Fact is I can hike at about the same speed I can bike if you factor in breaks and remounting/getting pedalling again with a sixty pound pack on your back. One trip and you will see that a person must push that bike as much as pedal it. It is highly strenuous and requires more rest periods then hiking. My point is there is nothing fast about it.

Weeds riding vs walking - riding gives you a narrower profile and your legs are up off the trail one to two feet higher. No way my pants could collect more seeds while riding - simply because I contact less weeds.

We continue to designate wilderness areas that keep out every hunter not wealthy enough to own horses. Access for all is a farce (hikers can only pack fresh meat so far). The certifide hay program is a joke that obviously doesn't work.

Last issue, the forest service and backcountry horsemen's association is struggling for funding like everyone. The trail maintence backlog is a true concern for all of us - the blow downs are unbelievable unless you see it. Without those trails cleared you can not access any of it. Accepting then partnering with bikers would provide a real boost for trail maintance volunteers.

Good discussion

schmalts · Jul 7, 2016

I would only do it for day hunts, as a heavy pack will make things a little interesting. A gated off forest or logging road is very bike friendly. Mountain bikes are great, what can go wrong

:

1_pointer · Jul 7, 2016

SteveE said:
In all do respect this is just not true in my experience. Throw a heavy pack on and try a mountain trail. You can not cover so much more ground - at least I cant and Im in decent shape. I've used both horses and bikes - a horse will cover way more ground. Not even close. Fact is I can hike at about the same speed I can bike if you factor in breaks and remounting/getting pedalling again with a sixty pound pack on your back. One trip and you will see that a person must push that bike as much as pedal it. It is highly strenuous and requires more rest periods then hiking. My point is there is nothing fast about it.

Weeds riding vs walking - riding gives you a narrower profile and your legs are up off the trail one to two feet higher. No way my pants could collect more seeds while riding - simply because I contact less weeds.

We continue to designate wilderness areas that keep out every hunter not wealthy enough to own horses. Access for all is a farce (hikers can only pack fresh meat so far). The certifide hay program is a joke that obviously doesn't work.

Last issue, the forest service and backcountry horsemen's association is struggling for funding like everyone. The trail maintence backlog is a true concern for all of us - the blow downs are unbelievable unless you see it. Without those trails cleared you can not access any of it. Accepting then partnering with bikers would provide a real boost for trail maintance volunteers.

Good discussion

IMO, allowing bikes would take a re-write of the Wilderness Act. Not sure that'd be a wise move in this political and social climate. You might get bikes and whole lot more you don't want...

mgiuliani · Jul 7, 2016

Any mountain bike hunters out there have good experiences to share using a tow behind trailer in the backcountry?

Flatland Crusoe · Jul 7, 2016

mgiuliani said:
Any mountain bike hunters out there have good experiences to share using a tow behind trailer in the backcountry?

If you are going to do it a Bob Ibex would be the best way to go http://www.bobgear.com/bike-trailers/ibex but at the cost of about $500 after you get all of the axle adapters.

Racks and Panniers are going to have a similar weight capacity if you have front and rear. Racks are typically rated to around 30 lbs each and the trailer is rated to 70 lbs. A frame bag for the center triangle is the best place to store some weight.

James Riley · Jul 7, 2016

mgiuliani said:
I am interested in gaining perspective from backcountry hunters regarding mountain biking. One clarification I'd like to make is that I am considering backcountry hunting as those areas closed to motorized travel, several miles behind a locked gate/posted trailhead, yet obviously this land cannot be wilderness as wheeled travel is prohibited by federal law.
Potential discussion points:
1. Who hunts from a mountain bike, specifically in the backcountry?
2. Do backcountry hunters on horseback object to those on mountain bikes?
3. Can horseman, mountain bikers, and hunters on foot share trail without conflict?
4. Does seeing a mountain biker on a backcountry trail detract from the hunting experience for some folks?
5. Should mountain bikes be allowed on all of the same trails as horse and foot travel or should there be designated bike trails?

Any and all feedback is welcome on this topic!

1. Not me.
2. Some do.
3. Some can.
4. Yes.
5. Yes and No.

I think they should be allowed on the same trails as horse and foot travel, but not Wilderness. I do not think they should have their own trails on federal land. Whatever a city, county or state wants to do is their business; Though if a State wants to give them trails they should have priority/right-of-way and not exclusive use (i.e. I can still hike there but they get the right of way).

Seeing any human being, or spoor thereof, detracts from my hunting experience.

Never used a bike. But I've had granola types look down their nose at me while I'm above them on horse back. Don't know how that can be done, physically, but they can do it. Apparently they don't like hiking through horse shit. I've hiked through it a-foot-back and it doesn't bother me too much, but I'm not much of a trail person anyway. Those little no-seeums that hang around fresh piles can be a drag.

Long story short: If I were King, Wilderness would be foot-back only. No horses either. But I'm not King. We need to work on that.

Straight Arrow · Jul 7, 2016

'Encountered a hunter on mountain bike back in the eighties who had half an elk on his bike. Unfortunately he hit the shoulder of a logging trail and spilled elk all over the place. We helped him load up again, he hopped on and headed down the mountain ... successfully making it to the bottom parking area.

I began riding my mountain bike on an old snowmobile trail to a wallow in the Pintlers, with my bow on the handlebars and wearing my hunting pack on my back. It was a good way to cover the trail to the wallow, but returning down the trail after dark was a bit dicey ... including a couple of minor crashes.

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