Thanks for the suggestions and advice! You bring up something that we were discussing on Saturday. We concluded one of the hard parts of dog training is that it's often done in leaps and pauses. Humans are used to seeing incremental improvement and dogs often make a big jump (something clicked or the switch gets turned on) and then are in a "holding pattern" until the next jump. We always celebrate those leaps, but it can be hard to during a pause. I think he'll turn out okay with more exposure and I'm working on getting him more of that. And yes, I need to be better on the check cord. Though he's not caught many birds, he's caught enough to know that he can. That's why they suggested working him with some bird launchers. He can't get to the birds and I control when they flush. The downside is that they don't give them away...
New dog journey...
- Thread starter 1_pointer
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bobbydean
Well-known member
Thanks for reviving this thread. I missed it.
Hunting Wife
Well-known member
Thanks for the progress report. The plateaus are annoying, but the regressions are worse. One day, you will give a command that he had down pat, and he will look at you like you suddenly started speaking French or something. That is just about enough to make you pull your hair out, but just take a step back for a bit and refresh the basics. I read some book that said they think this happens as that information goes from short term to long term memory. I don't know if that's true, but they were right on that it would happen. Seems like it was around 6 months and a year old that she did that. But it seemed like not long after she'd have an "aha" moment and a big step forward on other things. It's interesting to watch their minds work.
I think he's a bit like my kids and has "selective regression". Especially when it's time to get into his kennel! 
I wouldn't call him soft, but I do have to watch how hard I get after him. Too loud/aggressive and he back slides. I've gotten much better at not doing that by reading his body language and working harder to be calm all over (voice and body language).
One thing I am trying is to do shorter sessions more frequently. I'm hoping it helps. Last night I had about 15mins before we had to leave for a baseball game, so I laid out a few short tracks in the yard. Previously I had been using dead pigeons for this and leaving the pigeons at the end of the track. This time I coated his canvas bumper with some quail scent and used it as the drag with a treat at the end. First two were pretty easy as they were only about 10yds each and straight. The third one was longer and I put a J hook on the end. He's starting to learn what's going on so he was running at Mach 1 when I brought him outside. But, taking him past #1 he blew through it, but on his way back picked up the trail and found the treat. Using his collar I led him to the start of #2 and he followed it like he was on rails. For #3 I just kind of led him to the general direction of the start (FIND THE BIRD) and he picked it up right off. He did overrun the J hook, but came back, found it and ran it out. I was pretty darn stoked! I did like using the pigeons, but they're only good for a couple of days and then they get squishy enough that he chews them on the retrieve a bit too much.
Not sure if the next thing I did was "good", but I did it. After letting him retrieve the bumper a few times I'd get him excited with it and trying to get it from me. I kept him from grabbing it and then I'd stop moving it and give him a WHOA. After about 2 times of this he started to sit when I said WHOA. I think it's because I make him sit often before tossing the bumper. When he'd sit I stood him up and rubbed his belly while holding the bumper in front of his nose, but not letting him have it. Then I would toss it for him to retrieve. After a few times he did stop and stand when I said whoa. We'll see if that helps him in pointing better. Thoughts on doing that?
Thanks again for all the advice and suggestions. They are greatly appreciated.
I wouldn't call him soft, but I do have to watch how hard I get after him. Too loud/aggressive and he back slides. I've gotten much better at not doing that by reading his body language and working harder to be calm all over (voice and body language).One thing I am trying is to do shorter sessions more frequently. I'm hoping it helps. Last night I had about 15mins before we had to leave for a baseball game, so I laid out a few short tracks in the yard. Previously I had been using dead pigeons for this and leaving the pigeons at the end of the track. This time I coated his canvas bumper with some quail scent and used it as the drag with a treat at the end. First two were pretty easy as they were only about 10yds each and straight. The third one was longer and I put a J hook on the end. He's starting to learn what's going on so he was running at Mach 1 when I brought him outside. But, taking him past #1 he blew through it, but on his way back picked up the trail and found the treat. Using his collar I led him to the start of #2 and he followed it like he was on rails. For #3 I just kind of led him to the general direction of the start (FIND THE BIRD) and he picked it up right off. He did overrun the J hook, but came back, found it and ran it out. I was pretty darn stoked! I did like using the pigeons, but they're only good for a couple of days and then they get squishy enough that he chews them on the retrieve a bit too much.
Not sure if the next thing I did was "good", but I did it. After letting him retrieve the bumper a few times I'd get him excited with it and trying to get it from me. I kept him from grabbing it and then I'd stop moving it and give him a WHOA. After about 2 times of this he started to sit when I said WHOA. I think it's because I make him sit often before tossing the bumper. When he'd sit I stood him up and rubbed his belly while holding the bumper in front of his nose, but not letting him have it. Then I would toss it for him to retrieve. After a few times he did stop and stand when I said whoa. We'll see if that helps him in pointing better. Thoughts on doing that?
Thanks again for all the advice and suggestions. They are greatly appreciated.
HANK CAN POINT! When I let him out the backdoor last night he took a few steps out the door and BAM locked up on "point". I started to close the door but noticed him frozen in place. The sound of the door re-opening caused him to look back at me. He took a couple more steps and the tail quit wagging and he was very interested in what he was "pointing"...
I'll take it! Hope it portends of things to come. Once the rabbit took off we decided to have a treat!
When I let him out the backdoor last night he took a few steps out the door and BAM locked up on "point". I started to close the door but noticed him frozen in place. The sound of the door re-opening caused him to look back at me. He took a couple more steps and the tail quit wagging and he was very interested in what he was "pointing"... 
I'll take it! Hope it portends of things to come. Once the rabbit took off we decided to have a treat!
huntergirl_19
Active member
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- Aug 22, 2013
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- 131
I'm so happy for you!! Hank is doing great! It's definitely a process, but I find that patience and rewarding the small steps forward really helps both the pup and me
Okay, the Central Indiana NAVHDA had another training day on Saturday so I have an update. We've been working a bit on WHOA at home. Nothing to technical or proper, just trying to get him to slow/stop when it hears the command. A large reason for this is that he's not pointing all that well yet and I (more accurately I was told) think it's due to him catching birds on the ground during training. I put my order in for 5 pigeons for the day and contacted a couple of members whom agreed to bring some bird launchers to keep him from hopefully catching the birds.
The first bird was loaded and ready. As soon as Hank caught the scent and turned toward the launcher we hit the launch and the bird took off! We kept that up for 3 more birds and you could see him starting to get it. When he'd hit the scent cone he started slowing/getting more cautious until the bird took off. I spent a good part of the rest of the day helping either plant or shooting birds for others. BTW, be sure to check to make sure you've taken your turkey choke out. Makes it harder to hit birds on the wing and does a number on them when you do hit them...
Most everyone in the group I was with was about done with the field work and ready to move on to some water work, so I planted the last pigeon I had in the launcher and put Hank on the check cord. I let him burn off some energy and then gently encouraged him downwind of the bird. He caught the scent, slowed and started creeping towards the bird. I gave a soft tug on the check cord, whispered WHOA and bang, he locked up on point about 10' from the bird! Not even a tail wag! We let him hold it about 10sec and launched the bird. He gave it a good chase, but it didn't land. I was tickled! Thanks to one of the members I now have an application for a Conservation Club about 10mins from the house that has a 20ish acre dog training area and homing pigeons. Hopefully I can get everything processed and keep Hank progressing on his pointing.
After that, we moved over to the water. While others were working on duck searches, Hank and I just played with bumpers in the water. He shows no hesitation in going for a swim and to date has always brought the bumper back.
So, we are going to continue to work on WHOA and tracking drills at home. If I can get the keys to the club, do our best to get him on some live birds. They don't have remote launchers, but they do have some manual tip up baskets. If I can get one of my kiddo's or my wife to go with me that should work. I'd really love to get a remote launcher or 2, at $300 a pop I'm just not sure I can swing that right now... He will doing his Natural Ability Test in late August with a pre-test practice day the week before. I am fully confident he'll max out his score on the water portion. He's not flinching at all to the sound of starter pistols or gunfire, so we should be good there. I feel like he's doing well with the tracking at home, but tracking a dragged bumper is different than a live rooster. And pointing... He's doing a great job of finding birds, but I really hope to get him to pointing a bit better prior to the test. In the end, his score is really irrelevant, but as anyone who's done this type of stuff we all want to see our dogs do well.
All in all, we had a very good dog weekend!
The first bird was loaded and ready. As soon as Hank caught the scent and turned toward the launcher we hit the launch and the bird took off! We kept that up for 3 more birds and you could see him starting to get it. When he'd hit the scent cone he started slowing/getting more cautious until the bird took off. I spent a good part of the rest of the day helping either plant or shooting birds for others. BTW, be sure to check to make sure you've taken your turkey choke out. Makes it harder to hit birds on the wing and does a number on them when you do hit them...
Most everyone in the group I was with was about done with the field work and ready to move on to some water work, so I planted the last pigeon I had in the launcher and put Hank on the check cord. I let him burn off some energy and then gently encouraged him downwind of the bird. He caught the scent, slowed and started creeping towards the bird. I gave a soft tug on the check cord, whispered WHOA and bang, he locked up on point about 10' from the bird! Not even a tail wag! We let him hold it about 10sec and launched the bird. He gave it a good chase, but it didn't land. I was tickled! Thanks to one of the members I now have an application for a Conservation Club about 10mins from the house that has a 20ish acre dog training area and homing pigeons. Hopefully I can get everything processed and keep Hank progressing on his pointing.
After that, we moved over to the water. While others were working on duck searches, Hank and I just played with bumpers in the water. He shows no hesitation in going for a swim and to date has always brought the bumper back.
So, we are going to continue to work on WHOA and tracking drills at home. If I can get the keys to the club, do our best to get him on some live birds. They don't have remote launchers, but they do have some manual tip up baskets. If I can get one of my kiddo's or my wife to go with me that should work. I'd really love to get a remote launcher or 2, at $300 a pop I'm just not sure I can swing that right now... He will doing his Natural Ability Test in late August with a pre-test practice day the week before. I am fully confident he'll max out his score on the water portion. He's not flinching at all to the sound of starter pistols or gunfire, so we should be good there. I feel like he's doing well with the tracking at home, but tracking a dragged bumper is different than a live rooster. And pointing... He's doing a great job of finding birds, but I really hope to get him to pointing a bit better prior to the test. In the end, his score is really irrelevant, but as anyone who's done this type of stuff we all want to see our dogs do well.
All in all, we had a very good dog weekend!
D
Deleted member 20812
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Great to hear. When Henry did his NA test, most of the dogs lost points on the tracking portion. It sounds like that is a really common area for them to stumble.
Henry lost a few points on his pointing, as he tried to catch the first bird but then pointed the next two. Any chance you could get Hank out onto some wild birds prior to the test? Here we are allowed to start training dogs on wild birds (obviously can't shoot them) August 1.
Have fun with the test. You'll see a few idiots there that are there to impress and brag up their dogs. I was the naïve idiot that knew absolutely nothing about the test going in.
Henry lost a few points on his pointing, as he tried to catch the first bird but then pointed the next two. Any chance you could get Hank out onto some wild birds prior to the test? Here we are allowed to start training dogs on wild birds (obviously can't shoot them) August 1.
Have fun with the test. You'll see a few idiots there that are there to impress and brag up their dogs. I was the naïve idiot that knew absolutely nothing about the test going in.
Unfortunately, finding wild birds is pretty darn tough here in Indiana. I know of a few places I may be able to get one them, but unsure on if its legal. One tip I was given on the tracking portion to improve the score is to work on the dog breaking cover while on the track. He stated if the dog will follow the track from short/mowed grass into heavy cover that it'll greatly help the score regardelss of how well it follows the track after that. I plan on trying to work on that tomorrow. In the end it's been fun and we've made good strides regardless of what the actual score ends up being. At least that's what I'm telling myself now. If he gets a Prize 1 you'll definitely hear about it...
I plan on putting in for some of the reserved hunts and definitely the pheasant hunts. I'll also be hitting the preserves fairly often. If you'd like to shoot some birds, let me know!!
I've cleaned out my PM box.
Had a pretty eventful weekend. First off, I got my key and membership card to a local Conservation/Gun Club that has a number of acres used for dog training and their own stock of homing pigeons! So, being able to expose Hank to birds is now going to be a LOT easier and even cheaper. They have launchers as well, but the auto ones are on the fritz...
Secondly, the NAVHDA group had a pre-test training day on Saturday which I attended. The test is next weekend and the guy that will be running it took me and Hank through the process. We started in an upland field where they'll be doing the upland field work. I purchased 3 chukar that folks placed for us as we went through a "hunt". I let him run a bit to get some exuberance out of him, then put him on the check cord as I didn't want him catching any birds. Good news, he found every bird pretty easily. Bad news is that I still had to WHOA him up with the check cord. Once stopped he held point pretty well, to the point that the cord has slack in it. But he's not really doing that initial stop on his own. So, I'm not to hopefully to score too well on that portion of the test.
Though it's not part of the test, we shot the last bird over him. I got him stopped with the check cord and he held steady until the bird was flushed then I checked him until it hit the ground. No flinch at the gun and he retrieved the bird to hand. I was pretty stoked he did all that and very well. Now, if he'd just point...
Next on the the pheasant track. I kept him out of sight of the field until given the signal. He started off okay, then over ran it/got distracted and circled over behind us. Once I got him back on the track, he followed it pretty darn well about 5yds downwind of the actual track, which I was told is really not a problem. He broke cover (going from mown into the thick stuff) on the track which would end that session. Overall I he did good. I let him go a bit before I called him back as the test marshall was given me some advice. When I did recall him he came bounding out of the cover, with a now very dead, rooster in his mouth! He can find and apparently dispatch birds! I then took him over to the pond where he did great. No hesitancy what so ever and even though it's not needed, retrieves every bumper tossed into the water for him.
All in all, I'm very happy with Hank. He's become a very nice addition to the household and I'm certain I'll eventually get his kinks ironed out. I also realize that even if we don't come home Sunday with a Prize 1, life will still be pretty darn good.
Secondly, the NAVHDA group had a pre-test training day on Saturday which I attended. The test is next weekend and the guy that will be running it took me and Hank through the process. We started in an upland field where they'll be doing the upland field work. I purchased 3 chukar that folks placed for us as we went through a "hunt". I let him run a bit to get some exuberance out of him, then put him on the check cord as I didn't want him catching any birds. Good news, he found every bird pretty easily. Bad news is that I still had to WHOA him up with the check cord. Once stopped he held point pretty well, to the point that the cord has slack in it. But he's not really doing that initial stop on his own.
So, I'm not to hopefully to score too well on that portion of the test. Though it's not part of the test, we shot the last bird over him. I got him stopped with the check cord and he held steady until the bird was flushed then I checked him until it hit the ground. No flinch at the gun and he retrieved the bird to hand. I was pretty stoked he did all that and very well. Now, if he'd just point...
Next on the the pheasant track. I kept him out of sight of the field until given the signal. He started off okay, then over ran it/got distracted and circled over behind us. Once I got him back on the track, he followed it pretty darn well about 5yds downwind of the actual track, which I was told is really not a problem. He broke cover (going from mown into the thick stuff) on the track which would end that session. Overall I he did good. I let him go a bit before I called him back as the test marshall was given me some advice. When I did recall him he came bounding out of the cover, with a now very dead, rooster in his mouth! He can find and apparently dispatch birds! I then took him over to the pond where he did great. No hesitancy what so ever and even though it's not needed, retrieves every bumper tossed into the water for him.
All in all, I'm very happy with Hank. He's become a very nice addition to the household and I'm certain I'll eventually get his kinks ironed out. I also realize that even if we don't come home Sunday with a Prize 1, life will still be pretty darn good.
Last night was a good night. Storms and tornado warnings caused by sons flag football practice to be cancelled, so when TMOB got home I loaded Hank in the truck and went out for some training. The goal tonight was to get him to start stopping (if that sounds correct) when he smells birds. To start with, I let him run a bit to burn off some enthusiasm. Then as it was headed towards me I held a pigeon by the feet and let it flap to get his attention. First time or two he lunged to grab them, but a soft WHOA had him on point. I did this a couple of times then put one in the launcher and him on the check cord. Manual launchers make this less than ideal and a bit complicated, but it's what I have available. I led him downwind of the launcher until he hit scent and when he got close enough I could grab the laucher cord I stopped him with the check cord and no verbal command. We did this about 1/2 dozen times and each time it took less and less pressure on the check cord to get him to point. Once on point he'd hold it while I came up to him and even in front of him! Here he is locked up and as you can see there's no pressure on the check cord. He'd stay like that until I launched the bird and then I'd let him chase it while I got the next one ready. I'll work on steady after I feel better about the point.
Next step I loaded the launcher and turned Hank loose with no check cord, but with me holding the launcher cord. I'd wait for him to hit the scent and react to it, but if he didn't stop pretty darn quick like, I'd launch the bird. Only did this a couple of times as it was kind of a cluster trying to juggle all of that stuff... For our last 'run', I moved the launcher to an area we hadn't been be for and put him back on the check cord. I let him move out in front of me for the full length of the check cord. We started to get closer to where the bird was planted and BAM, he locked up just as I was thinking I needed to get ready to stop him! The previous times he was quite close to the bird when I'd stop him, but this time he was a good 50' away! This caused a small problem as I had to get in front of him to get to the launcher cord. I dallied up some check cord and moved in front of him and he stayed put until I got to the cord and launched the bird.
All in all I was very happy with last nights session. We'll do it again on Friday. The cool part about the homers is that he probably doubled the number of birds he pointed in one night! Not as good as wild birds, I know, but it's the best at my disposal.
Next step I loaded the launcher and turned Hank loose with no check cord, but with me holding the launcher cord. I'd wait for him to hit the scent and react to it, but if he didn't stop pretty darn quick like, I'd launch the bird. Only did this a couple of times as it was kind of a cluster trying to juggle all of that stuff... For our last 'run', I moved the launcher to an area we hadn't been be for and put him back on the check cord. I let him move out in front of me for the full length of the check cord. We started to get closer to where the bird was planted and BAM, he locked up just as I was thinking I needed to get ready to stop him! The previous times he was quite close to the bird when I'd stop him, but this time he was a good 50' away! This caused a small problem as I had to get in front of him to get to the launcher cord. I dallied up some check cord and moved in front of him and he stayed put until I got to the cord and launched the bird.
All in all I was very happy with last nights session. We'll do it again on Friday. The cool part about the homers is that he probably doubled the number of birds he pointed in one night! Not as good as wild birds, I know, but it's the best at my disposal.
Been too long since an update... We took a bit of a break for a few weeks as our schedule didn't leave much time for field training, but we did spend time working at home on obedience and leash items. Some things fell in place and I was able to score an automatic bird launcher! Wish I would have broke down and bought one of these things MONTHS ago. Makes working with him on his point much easier and my youngest loves to go with me and be the button pusher! The points are getting stauncher and he's now pointing farther away more often. I think he's starting to tie to the smell and his job together. He still spends most of his time on the check cord as he was ranging a bit farther than I wanted and he still charges in on the bird occasionally instead of pointing. The combo of the auto launcher and homers has been great. But, this weekend we thought we tried a variation of that...
After work on Friday the boys and I took a bit of a drive and came home with 5 pigeons and 1 cortunyx quail. Saturday after basketball, Hank and I headed out to the conservation club, but this time we didn't let the birds go! He pointed well and really got into it after he got to bring the first one back to me!!
A mouth full of feathers made him a happy boy! He retrieved all the birds and only failed to bring one back to hand. He dropped it at my feet. At this point we had been working fast and furious as I had to get back home for some evening plans and I think the 75º+ temps were getting to him. So, we worked on range and headed to the creek for a a cool off...
We're gonna keep after the homers as much as possible and I hope I can find some more birds to buy soon. We leave on 11/15 for a trip to see if I can find some wild birds to put in front of him...
After work on Friday the boys and I took a bit of a drive and came home with 5 pigeons and 1 cortunyx quail. Saturday after basketball, Hank and I headed out to the conservation club, but this time we didn't let the birds go! He pointed well and really got into it after he got to bring the first one back to me!!
A mouth full of feathers made him a happy boy! He retrieved all the birds and only failed to bring one back to hand. He dropped it at my feet. At this point we had been working fast and furious as I had to get back home for some evening plans and I think the 75º+ temps were getting to him. So, we worked on range and headed to the creek for a a cool off...
We're gonna keep after the homers as much as possible and I hope I can find some more birds to buy soon. We leave on 11/15 for a trip to see if I can find some wild birds to put in front of him...
He has! Thanks. Still haven't decided if I'll leave him intact, but the Vet recommended waiting until after his first birthday, which was 10/18. Said it would help him muscle up. I think he'd really "get ripped" if I could get him out for longer runs more often.
bobbydean
Well-known member
Good looking dog. Like the way he looks now.
noharleyyet
Well-known member
Looks like he's working you out Tyler. Handsome pup for sure.
For a bit now, I’ve joked that Hank is a hunting “breed” and not a hunting “dog” as he had yet really hunted. Well, that changed the week before Thanksgiving! We left on Tuesday morning and made a late night stop in Aberdeen, SD and heading on to our destination the next morning in North Dakota. There we met BOY, his father, BIL, and their 3 dogs.
Not a whole lot of great story telling, nor any pictures or lies about rock solid points that would be on the cover of Pointing Dog Journal. But, Hank got into a lot of birds. He learned how to cross fences and that if one’s not paying attention they can bite! It didn’t take him long to start working cover and staying, for the most part, close enough to me to be of help. Though I did have to do quite a bit of recall with him as he likes to chase flushed birds and a lot of the birds apparently had track shoes on! All in all the two of us had blast and learned a bunch! I did learn that I shoot my 20ga 870 better than my Mossberg 12ga and that 20ga 3” #5s do a great job on roosters. Now I just need to keep him on birds!
Still need to work on getting his point stronger. Running birds didn’t help, but at least he didn’t catch any! He can definitely find birds and was not too timid to get in the woolies after them. He did dang good on retrieves when he could mark them. Not quite as good if he didn’t or than ran a bit. Mostly I was pretty happy with his retrieving. But, the last bird he retrieved he did NOT want to give it up. It was alive when he got to me with it. It was not by the time I got it out of his mouth… Definitely need to work more on tracking!
Time for pictures!
Hank with his first wild rooster!
Hank and I with a pair we rooted out of a big field!
Hank doing his thing! I did put a protective vest on him the last day or two as his chest/belly was getting pretty wore out.
Like I said, we got into birds!
Not a whole lot of great story telling, nor any pictures or lies about rock solid points that would be on the cover of Pointing Dog Journal. But, Hank got into a lot of birds. He learned how to cross fences and that if one’s not paying attention they can bite! It didn’t take him long to start working cover and staying, for the most part, close enough to me to be of help. Though I did have to do quite a bit of recall with him as he likes to chase flushed birds and a lot of the birds apparently had track shoes on! All in all the two of us had blast and learned a bunch! I did learn that I shoot my 20ga 870 better than my Mossberg 12ga and that 20ga 3” #5s do a great job on roosters. Now I just need to keep him on birds!
Still need to work on getting his point stronger. Running birds didn’t help, but at least he didn’t catch any! He can definitely find birds and was not too timid to get in the woolies after them. He did dang good on retrieves when he could mark them. Not quite as good if he didn’t or than ran a bit. Mostly I was pretty happy with his retrieving. But, the last bird he retrieved he did NOT want to give it up. It was alive when he got to me with it. It was not by the time I got it out of his mouth… Definitely need to work more on tracking!
Time for pictures!
Hank with his first wild rooster!
Hank and I with a pair we rooted out of a big field!
Hank doing his thing! I did put a protective vest on him the last day or two as his chest/belly was getting pretty wore out.
Like I said, we got into birds!
