HB149, WY NR's get your wallets out

jryoung · Feb 10, 2015

Buzz, what was the estimated revenue increase for F&G for resident fees that got shot down last year?

Also, what % increase in revenue is the 60/40 projected to generate?

BuzzH · Feb 10, 2015

jryoung,

the fiscal note on hb149 is $424,000, and I have no idea how those numbers were figured. I can tell you that a majority of the special antelope and deer are not going to be drawn in the special fee portion of the draw. I think the 400k figure is suspect.

Let me look around and see if I can find the numbers on the resident fee increase bill from 2 sessions ago.

The Hedgehog · Feb 10, 2015

Wyoming lost me as a regular a long time ago. Value. I bailed on sheep points long ago.
I'll be back maybe twice more, only because they sucked me into some points schemes. Once I cash them, count me out.

jimss · Feb 10, 2015

I have 2 kids in college! Both of them work during the summers and sometimes during the school year. Even with 2 kids in college and on a measily salary I skimp and save enough to afford a hunting trip ever so often! If your kids are willing to work to help pay for their hunting license and trips I bet they will appreciate it even that much more!

Buzz, like always...thanks for the kind words! I could care less who proposed the bills!

BuzzH · Feb 10, 2015

jims,

My only request is that you someday donate your head to science...got to be a new thickness record there somewhere.

jryoung, here is the fiscal note on one of the bills introduced in 2013 for an across the board fee increase:

http://legisweb.state.wy.us/2013/Fiscal/SF0032.htm

HB112 from last session:

http://legisweb.state.wy.us/2014/Introduced/HB0112.pdf

No fiscal note was prepared.

Interestingly enough, the same 60/40 bill was introduced last session as well, but died in committee. The fiscal note last year was only $266,000, wonder how it got "refigured" to almost double that and more importantly why?

HB153:

http://legisweb.state.wy.us/2014/Introduced/HB0153.pdf

fiscal note:

http://legisweb.state.wy.us/2014/Fiscal/HB0153.htm

Topgun 30-06 · Feb 10, 2015

BuzzH said:
Not going to repeat myself.

You have no idea what goes on behind the scenes and what the real issues are. If you honestly think these bills are about 78 tags or a 20% swing in a tiered license fee structure, I truly feel sorry for you.

I'm actually glad you don't know what I know...you struggle with the simple stuff.

Have to LOL at that response! That was a real slick way of saying nothing as to what I just mentioned about your complete flip flop and BS as to why!!! You also have no idea what I think about why this Bill was introduced, but it's ironic that on MM you said you were fighting FOR this Bill to be passed because of the money it represented for the G&F budget. Now you have no idea what money it will actually put into that budget, but are now working against it! I think that deserves another, LOL! Next time you're in Cheyenne lobbying I hope you have some notes to help you remember which side you're on that day!!!

elkantlers · Feb 10, 2015

I hate to see any kind of tiered license structure. I have used the special fee to get a tag and a point in the same year but I would gladly see that go away for a straight across the board fee.

If this does somehow pass, I would love to see it made that youth can apply for the special tags at the same youth rate. That would at least give the youth more opportunity.

BuzzH · Feb 10, 2015

Popgun,

Nobody knows how much money the bill will increase the budget as its just a guess on how many licenses will be sold in the special vs. regular...its always varied.

There is a fiscal note, but that is also just a guess of $424,000 which is conflict with the exact same bill and the associated fiscal note from the last session which was $266,000.

Are you slowly starting to figure out what the real intent of this bill is and that it has nothing do with revenue?

Also, once again, you don't have the luxury of knowing what I know.

Big Fin · Feb 10, 2015

elkantlers said:
If this does somehow pass, I would love to see it made that youth can apply for the special tags at the same youth rate. That would at least give the youth more opportunity.

That would be a good outcome from a bill that if passed, is going to impact some youngsters getting to hunt Wyoming. Yet, since it would make so much sense, it is doomed when entering the abyss of a legislature.

jimss · Feb 10, 2015

In regard to the fiscal note. It's fairly simple to convert the number of regular vs special licenses sold with the current 40/60 break and convert them to 60/40. I actually came up with a lot higher number than the $400,000 projected in the 2014 fiscal note. Obviously the fiscal note numbers will vary from year to year depending upon how many tags are sold. The 2014 fiscal note numbers should actually be lower than past years since antelope and deer tags sold in 2014 were lower than past years.

Buzz, Thanks again for the kind words. I have pretty much donated my life to natural resources management....and science! Keep the compliments coming!

BuzzH · Feb 10, 2015

I agree, but it wont pass to allow youth to apply unless they pony up the same special fees as the adults.

A bill like that would get nowhere, and I'll let everyone guess who would kill it and why.

WapitiBob · Feb 10, 2015

I would hope whomever did the fiscal study looked at the special draw reports and looked at how many 1st choice apps there were above and beyond the current quota, on a per hunt basis. That would give them a decent guesstimate as to how many would continue to apply on the special side.

BuzzH · Feb 10, 2015

jims said:
In regard to the fiscal note. It's fairly simple to convert the number of regular vs special licenses sold with the current 40/60 break and convert them to 60/40. I actually came up with a lot higher number than the $400,000 projected in the 2014 fiscal note. Obviously the fiscal note numbers will vary from year to year depending upon how many tags are sold. The 2014 fiscal note numbers should actually be lower than past years since antelope and deer tags sold in 2014 were lower than past years.

Buzz, Thanks again for the kind words. I have pretty much donated my life to natural resources management....and science! Keep the compliments coming!

Wrong again jims, there is NO WAY for you or anyone else to know what the fiscal note will be, has nothing to do with fluctuations in total tag quotas.

You cant do a simple conversion, there are hundreds, if not thousands, of special fee tags that drop to the regular fee draw every year. Go look at the draw odds reports...you'll see it.

How this bill would impact those numbers if it passes is an unknown...and why the legislature is giving conflicting numbers in 2 consecutive years.

Good grief, how is it possible for anyone to be this blind and uninformed?

BuzzH · Feb 10, 2015

jims,

How many of the available special priced antelope licenses in unit 1 (18 in the random, and 56 in the PP draw), did NR's draw?

Now, convert those tag numbers to 60% of the available quota in unit 1 and tell me how much more revenue that unit 1 special license fees are going to help the GF budget with a 20% increase in special fee licenses.

Don't go and get all confused...its kind of a "trick" question.

BuzzH · Feb 10, 2015

Waiting for those numbers on how much more revenue, hb149, the 60/40 bill, is going to generate in antelope unit 1 if it passes....shouldn't take this long to crunch the numbers.

Topgun 30-06 · Feb 10, 2015

BuzzH said:
Popgun,

Nobody knows how much money the bill will increase the budget as its just a guess on how many licenses will be sold in the special vs. regular...its always varied.

There is a fiscal note, but that is also just a guess of $424,000 which is conflict with the exact same bill and the associated fiscal note from the last session which was $266,000.

Are you slowly starting to figure out what the real intent of this bill is and that it has nothing do with revenue?

Also, once again, you don't have the luxury of knowing what I know.

The name is still Topgun and if you knew half as much as you try to come across to everyone you would have known that the 90/10 tag split was going down 4-1, rather than the slam dunk you seemed to believe because you were for it! Funny that even though you were in Cheyenne in the trenches and I was here at my desk 1500 miles away you were so far off with "the luxury of knowing what you know"!!! Please take it somewhere else because even though you go to Cheyenne you have no idea until the final vote goes down just like the rest of us on these Bills and that 90/10 vote should have clued you in to quit making all your predictions just because you're there and a lot of us are at our desks! I would have to believe that one thing they are looking at is whether the Bill will gain money for the G&F budget, as that seems to be a factor in why the 90/10 split failed when it looked like the monetary losses might not outweigh the extra tag benefit to the residents. And yes, I know that the Bill has all to do with the WYOGA members figuring it will help them lock in more clients that can pay the big bucks and have a better chance at tags in their outfitter areas and it has nothing to do with them worrying about the G&F budget. Am I getting warm?

BuzzH · Feb 10, 2015

Sebastian,

Get the calculator out...I want the fiscal note on those antelope tags in unit 1, and I want it now.

jimss · Feb 10, 2015

Buzz, Thanks again for your kind words!

I don't think I mentioned regular and special priced quotas anywhere in my last post above? Take a little closer look and you'll notice that I wrote how many regular and special tags were SOLD! The WG&F knows exactly how many nonres regular and special tags are SOLD every year! Some are SOLD as first choice, 2nd, and 3rd choice in the special pref pt draw and the remaining are SOLD in the special random price pool.

Again, I appreciate all the kind words!

BuzzH · Feb 10, 2015

Topgun 30-06 said:
The name is still Topgun and if you knew half as much as you try to come across to everyone you would have known that the 90/10 tag split was going down 4-1, rather than the slam dunk you seemed to believe because you were for it! Funny that even though you were in Cheyenne in the trenches and I was here at my desk 1500 miles away you were so far off with "the luxury of knowing what you know"!!! Please take it somewhere else because even though you go to Cheyenne you have no idea until the final vote goes down just like the rest of us on these Bills and that 90/10 vote should have clued you in to quit making all your predictions just because you're there and a lot of us are at our desks! I would have to believe that one thing they are looking at is whether the Bill will gain money for the G&F budget, as that seems to be a factor in why the 90/10 split failed when it looked like the monetary losses might not outweigh the extra tag benefit to the residents. And yes, I know that the Bill has all to do with the WYOGA members figuring it will help them lock in more clients that can pay the big bucks and have a better chance at tags in their outfitter areas and it has nothing to do with them worrying about the G&F budget. Am I getting warm?

Not even close, but keep guessing...

BuzzH · Feb 10, 2015

jims said:
Buzz, Thanks again for your kind words!

I don't think I mentioned regular and special priced quotas anywhere in my last post above? Take a little closer look and you'll notice that I wrote how many regular and special tags were SOLD! The WG&F knows exactly how many nonres regular and special tags are SOLD every year! Some are SOLD as first choice, 2nd, and 3rd choice in the special pref pt draw and the remaining are SOLD in the special random price pool.

Again, I appreciate all the kind words!

I surrender to you jims, its just an easy conversion...:W::W::W:

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