Colorado Filming Permit Denied

Big Fin

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Just when you thought life could not get any more screwed up, something like this comes along. Here is the deal.

Last year, we tried to get a filming permit to fly into some BLM land in Colorado that is surrounded by a ranch that operates a large Ranching for Wildlife program. The idea was that we would hire a chopper to fly us into some bigger BLM sections that would allow us to hunt with OTC elk tags and the deer tags we drew in the public draw.

To obtain a BLM or Forest Service filming permit, you must fill out the volumes of paper, submit your operating plan, and the $100 application fee, hoping you will get approved. If you get approved, you then get your $100 application fee applied to the special use permit fee, usually somewhere between $1,500-$2,000 (now you know why most shows don't bother with filming permits).

The first step the agency goes through to approve the permit application is to determine if what your plan proposes is in compliance with state law. Sounds reasonable.

In this instance, I submit to the BLM, and tell them the tags we have, the season dates, etc. They call to inform me that I would be violating Colorado rules by hunting public land with these public tags. :eek::mad:

After a long series of discussions, some very patient BLM employees regretfully inform me that under Colorado commission regulation, not state law, Ranching for Wildlife operators can enroll public lands into their program and have that public land treated as part of their operating base. They then get allocated RFW tags based on that public acreage.

And here is the real kicker - the reason my permit was denied. Those landowners then control the public hunting on these public lands. Yup, my public tag is not good on those public lands. I have to purchase a landowner voucher from the RFW operator in order to hunt those public lands. Again, I cannot use my public tag on OUR public lands, according to CO commission regulations, so my filming permit to hunt and film on these public lands will not be approved.

Given this ranch had enrolled all but one parcel next to their lodge, I put last years application on hold and told them I would re-submit this year. I informed the BLM that in 2010, I would fly into this one remaining parcel, even if it overlooked the lodge of this big RFW operation.

So, this spring, I inform the BLM of my plans to make a re-submission. I tell them I will fly in to the one parcel overlooking the RFW lodge.

I get an email this morning telling me that now ALL public lands in that area are enrolled in the RFW program, and my tag can NOT be used on any of those public lands, as all hunting on those public lands must go through the RFW operator. Since my application last year, the last parcel that was available to public hunting was added to the RFW operating acreage in January, even though the BLM knew public hunters were wanting access to these public lands.

Given the cost of a deer hunt is $9,000 and and elk hunt is about the same, I am hardly going to pay a landowner that amount of money to hunt OUR public lands on MY public tag.

I had really hoped to do this in a way that illustrated what a joke the Colorado rules are that allow the RFW operators to take control over the hunting on OUR public lands. But, it cannot happen now, as the public lands I would have hunted are now ALL enrolled and the hunting rights have been transferred to this landowner by a mere signing of the pen at the BLM office.

When the RFW operator realized what I had planned to do in this upcoming year, he petitioned the BLM for enrollment of every acre of public land that is within his boundaries. The BLM and CO DOW complied, knowing full well that public hunters had planned to hunt that this year.

And, by doing that, the RFW operator increased his acreage and was now allocated more elk and deer tags for his RFW operation to sell to his paying customers. More of Colorado's wildlife just got handed over to the RFW operator, for no value.

If ever there was an event that caused me to say WTH, this would be it. I wonder how many Colorado hunters know of this rule.

If guys knew how reasonably priced it is to fly a helicopter into these parcels, they would be applying for these tags. Unfortunately, Colorado has pretty much blocked you from doing so, with this screwed up law.

What a joke. This goes down as one of the biggest public land give away welfare programs I have come across in all my years of hunting.

DOW will tell you that in exchange for transferring hunting control over these public lands, the public hunters get the benefit to hunt some of these RFW properties. Yeah, public hunters get the leftovers - some very small percentage of buck/bull tags, most the cow/doe tags, and get to come in after the RFW guys have had their special rut seasons, all in exchange for giving up premium public season hunting on these public lands.

Thanks DOW/BLM. By having such a screwed up commission rule and by allowing enrollment of these public lands, you have seriously put the leather to Colorado hunters. And for that matter, laid the pipe to all public land hunters who have plans to hunt some of these public lands now enrolled in the RFW programs.

Better go take a pill, before I blow a gasket. Time to re-juggle the filming schedule for this fall.
 
That's pretty sad. As if there's not enough private land to keep the outfitter and his fat incompetent clients happy. Greedy pricks make the world go around.
 
Does Colorado have a sportsman's organization, like Montana's Wildlife Federation? It's plain wrong, and things like this make my blood boil. I don't feel I should tell landowners how to deal with there lands. They shouldn't have any control over public lands at all. The states have given the wildlife over to private enterprises.

This is the same thing that Legislators here in Montana are planning. We can never allow this to happen. The next 10 years is going to be a battle.
 
I promise I would never act on this thought;), but I would like a sock full of dimes, a dimly lit room and the BLM personnel and ranch owners/managers who allow this crap for just five short minutes. I KNOW I would come out of there feeling better.
 
Bushy, I don't think you'd be knocking the right fellas in the head. That would be the Legislature of Colorado. Our legislature in Montana could do the same thing if we don't stay vigilant.
 
FUBAR

Too much money to be made by people making back room deals for the public to ever get a real fair shake. I know it wouldn't make much of an episode as far as the Outdoor Channel is concerned, but I'd be interested in an episode that exposes this whole mess, rife with interviews with these fine folks explaining why the public cannot hunt "public land". These people ought to be barbecued in a very public way.
 
Anyone know of other sites where a lot of CO hunters hang out? Thinking I would like to let more CO hunters know about this screwed up mess.

No wonder some privatization groups see the CO RFW model as such a good thing - you get the hunting rights associated with land, without having to pay for it. Why buy the cow when the milk is free?
 
That - is Horse Chit! Talk about a land grab! Buy land surrounding / land locking OUR land and it is theirs to control as they please - AND PROFIT? as an absolute! What flag does those running the RFW program and those members of the commision pledge their allegience to???

http://wildlife.state.co.us/Hunting/BigGame/RanchingforWildlife/
They provide public hunting recreation access to their land free of charge to those who draw licenses.

Public hunter satisfaction with their RFW hunts is polled in a phone survey to help improve service to future hunters, improve management, and improve the RFW program. Hunters, please remember to respond to this survey!

Over 1 million acres of public access are provided.
 
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I would guess close to 100% of the Colorado public does not know about this. I knew the RFW had the hunting rights to State land within the boundaries but I didn’t know BLM could be had as well.

Colorado Bowsite has quite a few pretty actively involved people. Hell, just putting it up there will educate a lot of us Colorado people who are in the dark about this.
 
I guess Colorado is in charge of the US Government properties these days. Apparently barry(barrack) doesn't have time for such things. What a crock. I've been here in Colorado for ten years and had no idea, but I do know that the native Coloradans have always told me the RFW was a crock and that these operators were way illegal. I've heard of the land owners hearding the elk back on to their property before but I never knew about this law. Thanks Big Fin!!
 
Big Slick, Barry(Barrack) has nothing to do with this. This is a states rights issue. The wildlife has been left to the states to manage and control for the good of it's people. The State Legislature is where you start screaming. Although the program might have overstepped it's bounds in letting landowners grab these lands. It might be a simple as suing the state, forcing them out.
 
My investigations have shown that this is not even a Colorado statute, but a DOW Commission regulation. That puts it really low down the list of authority, but enough so that the BLM cannot issue a permit that would violate such regulation.

Secretly, many DOW employees and BLM employees wish I would challenge this situation. Not a good use of my limited funds and time to fight a billionaire who has a lot more to gain by prevailing than I do. So, I will continue to tell people about this messed up ordeal in hopes that the CO DOW Commission would change it.

CO DOW has stated that the RFW program provides more hunting opportunity than it restricts. I say if they are still hung up on RFW programs, they can still demand the same amount of public hunting on those RFW properties, without handing over hunting rights on the public lands in question.

And, to many, I think it is the bigger question of whether or not these are public lands available to the public for hunting, etc., or if these are public lands here for the exclusive benefit of the adjacent landowners.

Interesting to note that I could go in and hike around, or take pictures, or ......... Just can't land there and hunt without buying a tag from the landowner.
 
Goes to show what I know about our laws that change on a whim, and that are put on a ballot that a lawyer couldn't understand. I wonder how many of us that aren't as well educated as we should be have voted the wrong way on a new bill because it was so slicked up to fool people?
 
Do like everyone else is doing, start up a facebook campaign against it. I am sure you will get quite a bit of exposure there.
 
Anyone know of other sites where a lot of CO hunters hang out? Thinking I would like to let more CO hunters know about this screwed up mess.

No wonder some privatization groups see the CO RFW model as such a good thing - you get the hunting rights associated with land, without having to pay for it. Why buy the cow when the milk is free?

Here you go Randy this site has lots of Colorado hunters on it this is the biggest crock of @#$% i have ever heard
http://muleymadness.com/
 
What gets me is how - "friendly" they make it appear... As quoted above... It appears as a great win - in the sense of PUBLIC HUNTING ACCESS to "their" lands FREE OF CHARGE!

So Our land is... THEIRS???

I can see how a brief phone survey would not NEAR touch the surface of the actual implications as experienced by Big Fin.

It is deceptive as all heck!
 
This idea got me thinking is this leagal to chater a choper in WY to get droped off o land locked public lands cause there is a lot of it down around casper that from what I hear is full of deer antelope and some elk with tons of surplus tags available
 
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