House Remodel?

Dinkshooter · Mar 18, 2008

I think there is a couple builders on this site in addition to a few realestate junkies. Don't really know where else to get a thought on this. Long way to my question:

Bought the lot in late 2004 for. Gave up every second of my life until August 05 and then some. 2000 sqft, 4 bedrooms, 2 baths. The goal was of course to sell in 2007 and do it again.

In that time lot prices went through the roof(Eagle County Colorado). looking at around $185,000 minimum for a lot probably a little smaller. So any profit made on the first house would be tied right back up in a new lot.

Since I framed it, I have a pretty good idea of how to take the roof off the garage clear back through the house and put a 2nd story on the left side of the house. It would actually work pretty well as the house trusses change right at the same point. Down side..............rewiring and re-sheetrock on the the existing first floor.

2nd floor would include at least a 22x30bonus room over the garage. 1-2 bedrooms, office and small bar. Adding 1300 sq ft. It would also allow for a change in the kitchen downstairs to make it really big with a island and breakfast nook.

Is this worth it? How much would you think per sq ft for cost? Assuming I do the demo, the framing, siding and sheetrock. Would I end up with to much house in a middle income nieghborhood that wouldn't sell? Would I just get back the investment with no return over the addition cost?

Maybe I should just drop it and be happy with what I have.

Oak · Mar 18, 2008

You've got more ambition than me. I'm trying to decide whether to build my own cedar fence or have somebody do it for me.

Dinkshooter · Mar 18, 2008

ambition or stupidity

noharleyyet · Mar 18, 2008

How big is the neighbor's two story? What would you clad the 2nd story exterior with?

BigHornRam · Mar 19, 2008

Where do you plan to live while undertaking such a project? How would you realistically protect the lower level from weather with the roof off? I could think of at least a 1000 other reasons not to do it. Can't think of one in favor of it.

Dinkshooter · Mar 19, 2008

I think I would go with stucco on the second level to break up the obnoxious hardi board. Added expense cause I do not know how to do it.

Neighbors house is 2200 sq ft.

My grandmother lives in a 2 story house. Her in the walk out basement. Nobody upstairs. I am already welcome to stay upstairs. Just pay the bills.

How would you realistically protect the lower level from weather with the roof off??

...............Lots of plastic and tarps. It is a windy bitch here so that has been a worry of mine.

Thanks for the thoughts, maybe I can get this out of my pea brain

ELKCHSR · Mar 19, 2008

I'd just trade grandma if she's willing

It depends on how many other 'like' structures you have, actual gross costs to do the remodel

Roofs are one of the most expensive parts of a building, removal and replacement may be a little cost prohibitive if your looking to make a profit on your investment

Housing for the next few years is going to stagnate because most peoples expendable income is diminished due to impending recession

But hey, the calls yours and sounds like your more in need of large projects than actual $$$ gain....

shoots-straight · Mar 19, 2008

Is the foundation strong enough for a second story? Is it slab or grade? If yes then a second story would be unadvised. If the foundation is 6" thick then I'd say no..Most of the headers would have to beefed up on the lower level to support the second level ect.

Dinkshooter · Mar 19, 2008

Foundation is 20 inch footers with 8 inch walls all the way around. I am pretty sure it would be ok. In my head I have about $6000 that I would have to pay an architect and enignerds.

Good point about the headers. I remember most just have 2 2x10 in them and the garage only has 2 glue lams. More sheet rock to rip off.

shoots-straight · Mar 19, 2008

Another thing, when and if you finish this thing is it going to be the top house in the neighbor hood. If so, then that would mean less sell ability. It costs as much to go up as it does out. You'd also have the time to regress in structure, and costs of removal.(garbage dump). The lot should be a push as far as value goes. It's easier to sell the smaller houses right now, unless you have repo's in the neighborhood. Sell, shop for a lot in another area, and rebuild. The good news is interest rates should be good and lumber is rock bottom. Times are tough right now, many subdivisions have sprouted up, they have cost associated with infrastructure and need to sell a certain number of lots sold, to pay these bills. You might shop around for a lot and do better than you think.

TLC · Mar 19, 2008

seem to have left off a couple things. you put 1-2 bedrooms upstairs, you should put a bathroom up there. as far as replacing headers, depends on what kind of load you are using. 2-2x10's would work since you probably are not going to be putting any loads on any extreme spans. I would need to know more specifics such as spans and such before I could give you a ballpark figure. but in this area, houses are going anywhere from 100-150 a square foot. 8" basement wall is fine for what you are talking about doing. guessing you don't have a steel beam for support in that garage, so you would have to by code put one in if you want to add footage over the garage. and thinking it has to be a 12-15" steel beam. at least to meet codes here. another thing you better think about is, do you have room for the staircase leading upstairs? ballpark, you will need approximately a 10' run by 4' wide space for that. as far as the hardi board. guessing thats what we call hardi plank here. not that tough, but easier for 2 people than one. have to drill the holes and put it up just like the old clapboard siding. but that stuff is HEAVY. and if you are going to do it right, you have to paint the ends as you put them up. and if you have to pay that much for the plans, you need to find a new company to deal with. have had plans drawn for similar projects after I drew them up for $500-1000. if you have any plans drawn up, let me know and I can do a take off for you so you have an idea of material costs. and don't forget about the heating and cooling systems. you would probably have to increase the size of your AC system if you add that much footage to the house. thinking the last thing I had like this was a 24x24 upper floor addition. cost was around $75000. of course, that includes my profit on the job.

csutton7 · Mar 19, 2008

I like the way shoots-straight is thinking here and I'd follow his advice---your first line of work is to go the building dept and see if your current foundation and framing are up to snuff for a 2nd story--anyway that's where I'd start---who did the original engineering for the house??? you can ask them also if it's up to code and will they state so in a written document, but the building dept will have the final say----plus are there restrictions involving your utilities(size wise, will you have to go bigger ----electrical meter/wires, sewer and water meter and pipe)----you already know your headers will need replacing, but you want to have all things in front of you, so you have no surprises-----good luck----chris

BigHornRam · Mar 19, 2008

Pretty good advice coming from a Bitterrooter S.S..

TLC · Mar 19, 2008

csutton, with a 2000 square foot house, he should have a 200 amp service with 30 circuits in it. so that would pass any code there is. as far as water meters go, there is only one size water meter. as far as water lines, feed from the buffalo box to the house has to be 1", and the internal line can be either 3/4 or 1/2". most newer homes have 3/4". again, no code saying otherwise. as far as sewer lines go, won't matter as they are all standard size. as far as headers go, they should not have to be replaced because they are 2x10's. unless you are talking a header that spans a room. when I say header, I'm talking about window and door headers. a doubled up 2x10 will pass code. even though you still have to build the upper part of the header down so that the interior doors will fit right. as far as the walls passing code, again, you build a 2 story with the same size walls as you do a ranch. 2x4 exterior wall framing will pass all the BOCA codes that I know of. unless there is an insulation code stating that 2x6's have to be used.

Dinkshooter, not that it matters, but does this house have a basement in it? a few of the more recent jobs.

Dinkshooter · Mar 19, 2008

"Dinkshooter, not that it matters, but does this house have a basement in it"?

No, you might be able to see on the right side of the picture, is my wetland conservation area. I own it but can't do anything on it. Because of the supposed wetland crap, basements were not recommeded by the town. Even though the ditch does not have a culvert under road so it is bone dry now and does not flow:BLEEP:

Crawlspace is bone dry and after I built, other neighbors did do basments.

Dinkshooter · Mar 19, 2008

Thanks for all the feedback TLC. I was just a framer while going to college. I just showed up and banged them together. I was never on the $ side of the equation. I bought this house as a package so all the lumber, window, roofing, etc was include in one big price. Your feedback helps a bunch.

Dinkshooter · Mar 19, 2008

http://www.americanhomepartners.com/project_details.asp?project=784&group=state

For anyone interested. We got this house for $5000 down. Smoking deal in the tight housing market up here but they do houses all over. I think the packages are a little high but you are paying for the financing as well. The equity has changed a bit since 2005.

csutton7 · Mar 19, 2008

dinkshooter---TLC is from Illinois, what the 'ell does he know---just kidding, but really you need to go to the building dept---just because the national code says stuff it will depend on what year code your building dept. will enforce now, not what was enforced when you built the house----TLC's comments cover a wide avenue and in most cases will be up to the task, but not always----save yourself the grief and call them---right down who you talk to and what they say, so that when you go in for permits(if you do the work) you can refer back to them if there's a glitch----

water meters do come in different sizes though---see it all the time, we have to change them when people add bathrooms and and if they have to add fire sprinklers---most of the time a 3/4" meter gets it done, but I've had to upgrade to 1" and 1 1/4" meters---only once did we have to get into the street to upgrade the size from street to meter----

your electrical service may be ok, but what you installed back when you built the house may not be adequate now---

I just threw the sewer line in there as I'm not sure what CO. codes are, usually I'd say most are 4" but maybe you have 3" --so better to be safe than sorry----

again go to the building dept and ask---don't assume anything we say is correct---we don't live in your town-----chris

TLC · Mar 19, 2008

Dinkshooter, if you don't me asking, what did you pay for the house turnkey? completely done, ready to move in? not counting furniture and appiances.

BigHornRam · Mar 19, 2008

Talking to some people that have done those kit home deals, the materials are low grade and way over priced. The EASY financing is the hook. You can get a much better deal from a local bank and building supply center. I talked my sister out of getting involved in building one several years ago.

Most of the kit home companies that I'm familiar with have gone TU because the owner/builder more often than not end up with half built aborted mess that they end up walking away from.

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