Question for Moosie [others]

I am getting ready to split a small parcel [raw land] approx. 10 acres

I have several quotes from $1,850. to $3000. the corners are marked and I just want a simple split [2 deeds] What should I expect to pay... How do they charge? by the hour/Job etc.... any advise is appreciated.

CJ,

Not sure in AZ, but you should be able to just draft the new legal description (which, if it is a rectangle, should be simple). Then it is just a matter of filing the subdivision with your local county.

I am not sure why you would even pay for that, other than government agency fees.

Did the quotes describe what actions they would take upon your behalf?

I agree with Jose. It seems that you should be able to just do it on paper. If you decide to sell one or both parcels, the potential buyer would pay a surveyor to confirm the property corners before the closing. No?

It should be a simple matter of a surveyor rewriting the legal descriptions and then filing them with the appropiate gov't agency. Although I saw some funny sh!t when I used to work title insurance so don't skimp on the surveyor. God knows the gov't agency won't catch it.

It depends. If you are allowed a "one time split" then it would be simple as stated above. Even land in the county here in Idaho alot of times don't qualify for a one time split.

If it doesn't quality, even splitting it once you need to go through a full subdivision Plat proccess. We would charge 8k-10k for a single split as well as 5 parcle split. the proccess is the same unfortunately. Public hearings, Neighborhood meeting, Comissioner meetings, Displays, Preliminary plat, Final plat.....

Anyone can just change the "lines on paper" and file it, but it might not make it a legal split. We deal with alot of illegal splits. Problem with those is NO BUILDING PERMITS

Public hearings, Neighborhood meeting, Comissioner meetings, Displays, Preliminary plat, Final plat.....

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8-10 grand to blow smoke! sweet gig.

Moosie said:

It depends. If you are allowed a "one time split" then it would be simple as stated above. Even land in the county here in Idaho alot of times don't qualify for a one time split.

If it doesn't quality, even splitting it once you need to go through a full subdivision Plat proccess. We would charge 8k-10k for a single split as well as 5 parcle split. the proccess is the same unfortunately. Public hearings, Neighborhood meeting, Comissioner meetings, Displays, Preliminary plat, Final plat.....

Anyone can just change the "lines on paper" and file it, but it might not make it a legal split. We deal with alot of illegal splits. Problem with those is NO BUILDING PERMITS

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Moosie,

Correct me if I am wrong, but even in Idaho, a landowner can jump thru all those hoops on their own, if they so desire to do the process?

And it depends on the parcel and the county. A split in Payette County is a different process than a split in Canyon County.

I know I split 10 acres into 3 parcels and didn't have to hire anyone. Just paid the fees, drew the legal description, and then had to go thru an administrative hearing with the hearing examiner. I think total cost was $150, if I don't count my time.

This property, has 90 deg. corner, then goes at a 30 deg. angle to the point... They are doing a subdivision on one side.....The County said I had to have a certified R.L.S. do the split.... I am not rezoning, so no hearings etc, are needed at this time....$1,850. looks pretty good....I will let you know .... they have to file their caculations and get them approved by the county...

JoseCuervo said:

Moosie,

Correct me if I am wrong,

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I will

IF... the land qualifies for the one time split. And depending when the land was previously split, you can do all the work yourself. It is fairly simple if you know bearings and Distances. As far as the different counties, they are all about the same. A little difference but not much.

Your 1 acre probably fell under the time frame of the one time split that you could split up to 4 times in most cases. We had a situation where they split the land in the mid 90's, they split the land once even though they sould have done 4 parcels at the time they didn't. It would have been better to split the land into 4 parcels then do a lot line adjustment. Now, they have to go through the full sub proccess. It's all in the timeing.

Another piece qualified but was too small for the septic and well so it couldn't be done unles it was a comunity system.

Jose, you know a local guy that likes the color "orange" , he bought an 80Acre piece (Or part of it) that was split into 5 acres. Well zoning required then to be 10 Acre pieces. So for a cleanup, it's fairly simple you refile the property (Go into a LLC with the existing land owners, whatever, file BACK the origional piece, resplit it and it's done. Issue lies if one (And one person never did) doesn't join the LLC or not willing to sell. No Building permits can be issued. County, City, courts.... doesn't matter, someone can hold onto the illegal split and you are Hosed. There are several subs in the foothills were someone just "Split it themselves" and filed it. the system has safeguards now in the proccess but not to long ago.... OOPS

cjcj said:

I am not rezoning, so no hearings etc, are needed at this time....$1,850. looks pretty good....I will let you know .... they have to file their caculations and get them approved by the county...

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cjcj, good luck. If there is no rezoning, no CUP (conditional use Permit) needed, and you are eligible for the split without the proccess it's jsut a matter of drawing it up and Filing it. If you do a ROS you will need it Pinned by a surveyor.

One question though, I know that DEQ has alot of restrictions on Lots. With 3 acre min lots (here in this area) you don't need an NP study but less than that you will depending on the Area clasification. If you are on city water and Septic that won't be a factor. I'm guessing 5 acres is allowed, even in AZ where there is more Chit then here

Each parcel will be just shy of 5 acres each about 4.8, plus there is some new "easements" that will impact a future road that has already been approved and planned by the city... so I will just go ahead with the licenced survey Co.... They want $925.oo to get started... Is that customary [50% down?]

Don't know the ropes in your neck of the woods, but I just split a 31 acre tract in Indiana, I bought 21 acres and the neightboring farmer bought 10 acres.
We had a surveyor draw up the plat drawing, write new legal descriptions for each parcel, then had the local title office legally record things for the county accessor so they know who to tax and how much to tax.
Got the whole works done for under $500.

cjcj said:

Each parcel will be just shy of 5 acres each about 4.8, plus there is some new "easements" that will impact a future road that has already been approved and planned by the city... so I will just go ahead with the licenced survey Co.... They want $925.oo to get started... Is that customary [50% down?]

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With the easements, is the city requireing any dedications ? Almost all new developements here can expent to dedicate part of the frontage for future road expansion.

as far as money up front, each place does things differently. on a small deal like that we wouldn't require anything up front, but wouldn't FILE the survey untill paid. Some places require all up front. 1/2 ? unles you are planning on stiffing them, jsut pay it

You can do alot of things depending on where the land is, how big it is, what previous options have been put on the land, if it's in the comprehention plan, zoning, etc.

Sometimes it's $250 sometimes its $25k. sounds like you have a 1-2k project. Have fun !!

JoseCuervo said:

Moosie,

Correct me if I am wrong, but even in Idaho, a landowner can jump thru all those hoops on their own, if they so desire to do the process?

And it depends on the parcel and the county. A split in Payette County is a different process than a split in Canyon County.

I know I split 10 acres into 3 parcels and didn't have to hire anyone. Just paid the fees, drew the legal description, and then had to go thru an administrative hearing with the hearing examiner. I think total cost was $150, if I don't count my time.

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Always hire a surveyor!! And not just because I am one , but because getting it done right can save a lot of headaches down the road. Going to court is never fun. I have a client that has paid 50k in legal fees fighting over a 500sq ft parcel of land that both he and his neightbor claim is theirs.

If you were here in Idaho, I would charge you the following for a one-time division:
4-5k in Ada county
3-4k in Payette, Boise and Canyon counties
5-6k in City of Meridian or Boise (their process requires more details and applications)

Jose,
It must have been a while back that you did that split cause now Payette county requires a Record of Survey to be done. Wich would require a field survey, pin setting and legal descriptions.

Interesting that they allowed you to create 3 parcels...again must have been a long long time ago. Anything over two parcels creates a subdivision and per Idaho code you have to create a plat...otherwise it is an illegal subdivision.

CJ,

Hard to say why there is such a difference in the cost. Could be that one is proposing to do more work than the other. Cheaper does not always mean better. My two cents.

fowladdict1 said:

Interesting that they allowed you to create 3 parcels...again must have been a long long time ago. Anything over two parcels creates a subdivision and per Idaho code you have to create a plat...otherwise it is an illegal subdivision.

.

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Interesting that you are a Surveyor and Don't know.. I'm not, So I'm going to defer my council to my partner. I will get the Skinny on it and post it for ya

Maybe when we are all in Africa this year we can explain a few things to our competitor ?!?!?! 5 months and counting baby !!

We have the Sundivision Map Act here, effective March 1, 1975. Subject to certain conditions, splits completed before March 4 1972 are conclusively presumed to have been lawfully created. Any split 4 parcels and under can be done via a parcel map and a simplified set of procedures. 5 units and above constitutes a "subdivision" and requires a more extensive filing process. The counties here even charge a fee for a "Certificate of Compliance" stating that the split was legal or was done before the creation of the law...anything for a buck. Simple lot splits or lot line adjustments still require a survey here, along with the map filing requirements of the city and/or county. Some rural areas may have simplier procedures as the state law leaves it up to the local governing authority to establish the requirements.