Preference Points Comming to Idaho?

Here's something from the F&G website that I'm sure some of you would be interested in. I doubt we will see a preference/bonus point system in Idaho anytime in the near future but you never know. At first a preference point system will appear to help guys like me that can never draw a tag but the truth is they encourage more people to apply every year and will decrease the odds of drawing a tag.

Commission Encourages Preference Points


The Idaho Fish and Game Commission has directed the Idaho Department of Fish and Game to further investigate a point system for controlled hunts in Idaho.

Dr. Wayne Wright, Commissioner from the Magic Valley Region made the motion at the commission meeting on Friday, January 21.

"It's a very popular concept right now." Wright said. "I think we're faced with the reality that there's a real demand out there."

Such a system would award points to those who apply for controlled hunts, but whose names are not drawn. In theory, a hunter's odds would increase each time he/she was unsuccessful at drawing.

At a Commission workshop earlier in the week, Wildlife Chief Jim Unsworth presented the Commission with a detailed analysis of the pros and cons of such a program, based on points programs already in use in Nevada and Oregon. He provided the Commission with documentation showing how the systems work in those states.

"Generally people with the most points drew a permit." said Unsworth as he ran down the numbers from Nevada's system of bonus points.

However, Unsworth said such systems are of little value in hunts with the least odds of drawing.

"For hunts that are easy to draw, it (Oregon's preference point system) works well." he said "It falls apart in hunts that have less than ten percent odds of drawing."

In Idaho a substantial percentage of people applying for controlled hunts are putting in for those hunts with less than a ten percent chance of drawing, including 45 percent of deer applicants, 50 percent of antelope applicants, 53 percent of goat applicants, and 92 percent of sheep applicants.

Of course, any time you increase one person's odds of success, you decrease those of another. Some in the department are concerned that youth hunters would suffer under such a plan since they would inherently have fewer, if any points. Oregon's preference point system attempts to deal with this potential dilemma by awarding 75 percent of tags to those with the most points and drawing the remaining 25 percent from a pool of all applicants.

Another downside to a preference point system would be the cost. Implementation and maintenance could cost the department as much as 660 thousand dollars per year. According to Unsworth the department would likely have to increase application fees from the current $6 to approximately $10 to cover those costs.

Unsworth also stressed the fact that while a point system would increase the odds for hunters who persevere, the luck (or bad luck) factor would never be eliminated.

"I can tell a hunter I'm not guaranteeing you a tag, but you are going to increase your odds of drawing. Your odds are better, but there's still no guarantee."

Fish and Game staff will work to develop a proposal that will be presented to the Commission at a future meeting. If a preference point system is adopted it will not apply to the 2005 season.

Unfortunately, as we've all seen in the past, if the "commissioners" want it, it doesn't make a bit of difference what we the public and hunters want. They'll implement it regardless. Hopefully it doesn't happen anytime soon.

I sure hope Wyoming and Idaho both implement something in the near future...

I heard mention that they were looking to have it in place by 2007... It will be interested to see what they come up with for a proposal this year.

I hope they don't but if they do I really hope its not a system where you have to have max points to draw. Isn't Arizona's system where points just get you another chance in the drawing? Everyone has a chance, just those with more points have a better chance?

I'm all for a bonus point/preferance point and would like to see all general rifle hunts go to controlled. I lived in OR when they went to the system, several people were bent out about it at first but as time has gone by I don't think you will find many that cuss the system anymore. The quality of the game has been the biggest improvement that I have saw. When a person has to wait 3-4 yrs to draw a buck tag I have found there more inclined to look for something of quality unlike the general hunts where people whack the first forky that pops out of the brush. My father has hunted in oregon for 50 yrs and since they went to a draw he has killed 3 of the largest bucks in the last 10 yrs in his life. I would support any draw system Idaho wanted to implement. I have'nt drawn a tag in Idaho since moving here in 2000 and I think there system sucks.

Who is in favor of the preference points and pushing for the system???


Gato,
But you have been able to pick up a tag EVERY year in Idaho since 2000 and hunt SOMEWHERE.

I was just at a Meeting with Commissioner Watts and we talked a little about the idea. I think there is gonig to be some Radical changes in the next few years. This year is Gonig to be moderate change (Besides the SE Commissioners wanting to put some Ideas on Paper this year in thier area....... but next year things are Churning. There will be more controled hunts. More Muzz draws and you will see a push for the Point system.

I truely hope they do the system. That being said, there should be some units left well enough alone. Some of the Tough units like this Middle fork 27 area, Unit 39 and Maybe something in the Sawtooth. There should be places the Average guy willing to work can Still get a Buck and have a Chance to hunt even if he doesn't draw. That would be the best of both worlds.

The funny part is the Sheep draws there are some of the Best Drawing odds right now. The Unit I went was 25% odds. Were can a Guy get a sheep with those odds ? I also believe the Point system doesn't make it easier right away for someone but over a lifetime works. Jsut my opinion as I sit right now... As I learn more I reserve the right to change my mind

(BrianID, thanx for the Info !!! )

I for one am hoping for the bonus point system(like arizona) not preference (like Colorado). The weighted point system seems to work best. Give a percentage of the tags for the highest amount of points and the rest go to the regular draw, where every bonus point you have you get another chance in the hat. All I know is we need something in place.

I also hope they keep the general tags available. There are still tons of big bucks roaming the hills in general tag units. It's not like all the big bucks are gone. And I don't buy the excuse that youth hunters won't get a chance to draw. That would be too easy to fix, give the youth a percentage of the tags or make special hunts available for them like they are doing now. And the cost is another issue. They seem to have enough money to do things like Access Yes but to put a system in place for the draws will cost way to much money. BS... Like they said they might have to raise the fee to put in for controlled hunts from $6 to $10. Who cares that would be worth it. But when it comes to fee increases (tag and licenses) to benefit them (vehicles, pay raises, etc.) there seems to be no problem there.

This is just my 2 cents and it may because I can't draw a tag to save my life but I believe something needs to be done.

Later,

I agree with everything IB mentioned above, except for the reserve tags for youth. I think there should be enough areas for quality general hunts as folks (young and old)are aquiring BONUS points for premium units. JMIO

Why should a 13 YO have a better chance at drawing a premium unit than someone that has been attempting to hunt the same area for years?

Gunner I bought an clearwater tag this last yr, never pulled the trigger, but other then that I have'nt bought a deer nor elk tag in 2-3 yrs in Idaho.....why?, because all summer long while I bear hunt I constantly scout for game and I have'nt seen anything worth buying a tag for.

The only nice thing about preference points is that it will help you predict when you will draw. Preference points will certainly make it more difficult to draw a tag. If you think the 2% odds on unit 45 bad are now wait until the preference point system has been in place for a few years. More people will apply than in years past because they want to build up their points. It is simple math the more people you have trying to draw a limited number of tags the lower the odds of drawing a tag. Preference points will be a bad deal, unless your one of those guys that applies for his wife, daughters and grandmother whom don't hunt. I'm sure George from USO will like Idaho having prefernce points because that will work better for his type of opperation.

With the exception of drawing an unlimited tag, I haven't drawn a single tag out of approxamatly 25 tags that I have applied for over the past 10 years. I havn't been appling for the the premium hunts either. I think the worst odds on a tag that I have applied for would be around 1/12 with some as good as 1/4. Statistically I should have drawn at least 3 tags with 4 being more realistic. The only thing I have to blame is bad luck. Sure I could have a lot of points built up if we had a preference point system but I would rather have it stay the same as it is because statistically all of us have a better chance of drawing a tag without a prefernce point system.

If you want preference points that's fine with me but make sure you know the facts. The first few years prefernce points will work great but after everyone starts getting max points we are all going to have to wait longer to draw a tag. Preference points would be good IMO when the odds of drawing a tag are better than 25%. There are only a few tags with odds as good as 25% that I would be willing to trade my general season tag for. IMO prefernce points are going to be a bad deal for hunters that have been faithfully appling every year. Prefernce points are going to be a good deal for those less interested in hunting and don't normally apply for a tag every year but after the preference points are added you can bet than many of them will start faithfully appling.

MT - I agree with you on the youth tags but I only wrote that because of F&G's concerns.

BrianID - I don't want preference points. I would rather have a Weighted Bonus point system. I also am on a tag drought. I havn't drawn a tag in 15 years. I put in every year for elk, deer, and antelope and like you said not all the tags are what most people consider premium hunts. Most of the tags draw odds are around 1 in 8-9. Which would put me at about 5-6 tags that I statisticly should of been drawn.

And another reason I want preference points is because I can't stand it when the guy next door hunts premium hunts every other year while I go on the general tag hunts. So I don't agree that drawing a tag should be based on luck. Because I have none. Wa, Wa I know but I guess we still have hunts available with the general tag. So I'll sit back and watch F&G blow more smoke up are A$$.

Later,

9th circuit court of appeals

anybody read on the whole issue of out of state tags . that ruling in arizona will come back to haunt us also.its only a matter of time before a suit is filed on behalf of out of state hunters to end the cap on out of state controlled tags such as Moose, as of now in arizona it is easier to hunt deer in Kaibab as a non resident then as a resident. i experienced this first hand as a resident of arizona last year, i didnt get drawn but i took a drive up there and 8 of every 10 rigs i saw had out of state licence plates.The 4 days i was up there i did not see any rigs with arizona plates. Coming soon to Idaho.

Is there any word on what sort of system they are looking at preference vs. bonus? One thing I've learned lately is that it doesn't matter what the people want if the commission likes it then thats how it will be. I think the commission system sucks, but its the same everywhere, what can you do?

TheTone,

It is still in the early planning stages right now so anything could still happen.

I think that a bonus point system would be much better than a preference point system too but I still think that the way it is now will give those of us that have been applying every year better odds at drawing a tag. If a preference system is added, people that are less interested in hunting will apply more often to get their points. With more people applying, the odds of getting drawn will decrease. After 10 or 15 years there will be many people with lots of points and statistically it will take much longer to draw a tag, especially on the "premium tags".

Here's an example to consider. Antelope tags are hard to come by right now in Idaho but with a preference point system it will be much more difficult because more people will be appling. Conservatively let’s say after a preference point system is put in place it takes 10 points to draw a mediocre antelope tag. $10 proposed application fee multiplied by 10 years = $100 + $30 for tag = $130. $130 + waiting the 10 years for a mediocre antelope tag in Idaho makes a Wyoming antelope hunt look like a much better option. Right now, statistically you can draw almost 2 mediocre antelope tags in a 10 year period with each tag.

If you want prefence points that's fine with me but they won't increase you statistical chance of drawing a tag. Prefernce points also cost more money and on average you will be waiting longer to draw a tag.

I would rather take bonus/preferance points over just being "lucky" in a draw. Even if it takes 15 yrs to get an antelope tag.