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Old 04-28-2005, 09:50 AM
MattK MattK is offline
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Default Catching Pike Minnow for money

PORTLAND, Ore. -
Fishing in the Columbia and Snake rivers this spring and summer could be very rewarding for those who pursue the northern pikeminnow. The Northern Pikeminnow Management Program will pay $4 to $8 for each of the salmon-eating predators delivered by fishers to stations along the Columbia and Snake rivers.

The 2005 sport reward program opens on the lower Columbia River May 2 and upstream into the Snake River May 16.

The program is designed to reduce the number of mature pikeminnow in the lower Columbia and lower Snake rivers. These larger fish thrive by devouring juvenile salmon. Since 1990, fishing has removed nearly 2.4 million northern pikeminnow. Last year alone, 268,000 of the predators were turned in for reward, saving thousands of juvenile salmon.

The more northern pikeminnow each angler catches, the more the fish are worth. The first 100 bring $4 each. The next 300 are worth $5 each, and after 400 are turned in, they're worth $8 each. As an added incentive, specially tagged fish released into the rivers will garner $500 each.

To be Credited fish must be at least nine inches long and must be caught in the lower Columbia River (mouth to Priest Rapids Dam) and Snake River (mouth to Hells Canyon Dam). Anglers have averaged several hundred dollars during a season; the top 20 have made from $15,000 to nearly $35,000 fishing for pikeminnow.

Program participants must register in person at one of the registration stations each day prior to fishing. The catch must be turned in each day and reward vouchers are issued for qualified fish.

Information about where to find northern pikeminnow, how to fish for them and how to qualify for the sport reward program is available from the Washington Sport Reward Hot Line at (800) 858-9015. For voucher information, call (800) 769-9362 or (503) 595-3297 in Portland. Visit the Web site at www.pikeminnow.org.
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Old 04-28-2005, 10:56 AM
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That's neat, for sure.
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Old 04-28-2005, 07:33 PM
TheTone TheTone is offline
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Living in Lewiston where tons of people fish for these things I have never understood this program. Didn't the salmon evolve with them?
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Old 04-28-2005, 08:11 PM
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Its the complete opposite here if I remember correctly they want pike minnows in the colorado river. they are endangered here.

Again if I remember correctly

Delw
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Old 04-28-2005, 09:55 PM
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TheTone, salmon did evolve with pikeminnows. What they didnt evolve with is 100's of miles of slack water (behind the dams) thats jacked the pikeminnow population through the roof. Salmon also didnt evolve going through dams and having nitrogen poisoning...which either kills them or stuns them so pikeminnows can easily gobble them up. Salmon didnt evolve with being ground up into pikeminnow bait by dams either.

See the difference?
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Old 04-28-2005, 10:19 PM
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Buzz , you forgot to blame Dubya for this .
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Old 04-28-2005, 11:35 PM
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FCB- He won't change it and in fact wants to lessen the restrictions on dams. Even the BPA is against his latest energy bill as it will hurt the environment, jack rates, and cut funding...

Yeah, GWB's doing a helluva job!
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Old 04-29-2005, 06:17 AM
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Buzz,

How does nitrogen poisoning happen? Is it because of the impounded water behind the dams?
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Old 04-29-2005, 07:07 AM
MarvB MarvB is offline
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Bambi- Its actually (and Buzz feel free to correct me if I'm wrong ) the water going over/through the dam...not that impounded behind it.

When water is “churned” it can develop nitrogen gas. Can happen both through a dam (turbine) or even with diversions if the spill is too fast or concentrated (it needs to be a bit of a balancing act by the operators). The nitrogen supersaturation below the dam can enter the fishes bloodstream through the gills and can injure fish by expanding as it attempts to return to the atmosphere- similar to that experienced by human deep sea divers when they ascend too quickly from a dive (the bends).

As the unstable nitrogen gas expands, it injures fragile tissues within the body, especially the eyes. Since the eyes contain some of the most delicate structures in fish anatomy, nitrogen poisoning often reveals itself in swollen or ruptured eye tissue, a condition known as "pop-eye." Also makes them more prone to disease/infection.
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Old 04-29-2005, 07:09 AM
BigHornRam BigHornRam is offline
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Matt,

Is the BPA in favor of dam breeching? Are you in favor of welfare ranchers paying the going rate for federal land grazing? Are you in favor of balancing the budget?
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Old 04-29-2005, 09:20 AM
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Wonder if pike minnas would make good bear bait????
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Old 04-29-2005, 12:44 PM
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Del, you're right, but it's a different species of pikeminnow. You've got the endangered Colorado pikeminnow in the C. River, vs. their northern pikeminnow.

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Old 04-29-2005, 02:44 PM
TheTone TheTone is offline
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Oh I definitely understand that all Buzz. Does anyone think this makes any real difference in salmon numbers? One would think there are better uses for this money.
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Old 04-30-2005, 10:53 AM
BuzzH BuzzH is offline
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TheTone,

No, I dont think it makes much difference...and I agree, that money should be used for dam breeching.
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Old 04-30-2005, 01:40 PM
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What's the biggest dam ever breeched? That is, can they breech these dams there. Who tested those ladders? They don't even know what's wrong, do they? Is there a report somewhere on it?
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Old 05-01-2005, 03:11 PM
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Tom,

The ladders for returning fish are fine. They've removed and breeched plenty of dams.

They do know whats wrong...90%+ mortality on smolts. We've spent over a BILLION dollars in trying to reduce smolt mortality...cant get it below 90%, most years its more than 90%.

Lets see...before the dams were put in we had 30 million anadromous fish a year entering the Columbia...after dams we have maybe (on a real good year) 800,000...I wonder what the problem is??? It isnt rocket science...
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Old 05-01-2005, 04:00 PM
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Did they know that when they built the dam(s)? Do you think they have one of those environmental impact reports on the web somewhere?
The news I heard, said they didn't know what it was, did they decide what it was, or are you just saying what you think it is?

Here's some rocket science type stuff on it, it looks like, but these curves have some higher survival rates in them, 30%, I think.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...69868d7ab9d8e6
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Old 05-01-2005, 04:47 PM
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Tom,

The research is out there, the PATH report would be good place to start. Check out the army corp of engineers too.

We've posted an ass-pile of data on the board...I bet even a search on salmon in SI could get you started.
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Old 05-01-2005, 04:57 PM
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Cool, they said what you said, partially remove the 4 dams, as a summary statement.

http://www.idahorivers.org/salpath.htm

The news report I heard was not too good, I guess.
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Old 05-01-2005, 05:16 PM
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Tom, did you read this part in the link you provided?:

"THE SCIENTIFIC CASE FOR PARTIAL REMOVAL OF THE LOWER SNAKE DAMS

Current smolt-to-adult return rates for spring and summer chinook are less than one-half of one percent that is, for every 100 smolts (migrating young salmon) that head for the ocean, less than one-half of one adult fish returns two to three years later. This return rate is four times below the rate needed for replacement, and far less than the four-percent rate, last recorded in the 1960s, needed to rebuild salmon stocks.

These dismal returns reflect two failures: in existing in-river migration conditions, and in fish barging and trucking. Each year, 50 percent to 80 percent of smolts are collected at lower Snake dams, loaded on trucks or barges, and transported downstream past Bonneville Dam. The rest migrate in-river. Recent studies ratify the real-world results: neither the barging/trucking program, nor status-quo river conditions, can restore salmon, and neither should be part of a long-term recovery plan. Studies comparing fish barging to existing in-river migration are largely irrelevant to salmon recovery, since both are failures.

What will succeed? The official Independent Scientific Advisory Board (ISAB) for Columbia/Snake salmon has stated the general scientific consensus crisply: "Return to the River." Migration conditions in the river must be returned toward those under which the salmon evolved and thrived.

Taking up where the ISAB left off is PATH, the other official science process for Columbia/Snake salmon. PATH (Plan for Analyzing and Testing Hypotheses) was given the task of predicting whether specific measures would restore salmon. PATH is conducting the most rigorous, technically-based natural resource decision-making analysis ever done, anywhere. Federal, state, tribal and independent scientists are teamed in PATH. Uncertainties that cannot be resolved are explicitly recognized and factored into the analysis. An independent scientific panel provides rigorous peer review of PATH results.
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Old 05-02-2005, 04:28 PM
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So, ISAB and PATH have said go back to the river conditions is best, it sounds like.

They are trying other things, they refuse to go back to river conditions, is that it? So, we still have the problem.

Is that none to 0.5% come back or nearly none make it out? I guess I should read more of that PATH group's work if it as thorough as it gets. I'll read some more, its great you put me onto it, the PATH report.
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Old 05-02-2005, 04:46 PM
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Tom,

You'll find through the research the main problem is smolt, both hatchery and wild fish, making it down to the ocean. The various agencies have tried all sorts of stuff, from collecting smolt behind the dams and barging them (conclusive evidence points to that actually REDUCING the adult return rates) to installing turbine screens, to killing pikeminnows, etc. etc. etc. A vast majority of the money spent to recover anadromous fish has gone into these "techno" fixes...and yet, we still get 0.5% return rates.

Further evidence that dams are the problem is simply looking at coastal U.S. rivers with NO dams and river systems in Canada and Alaska that have NO dams. Those rivers typically have smolt-to-adult ratios of 30% or more. A good comparison would be the Fraser River and the Columbia...both about the same size...not that far apart, maybe 400 miles. The Fraser River has (1) dam on a small tributary, the Columbia has over 200 dams including a bunch on the main stem. The Fraser river fish returns are still measured in the 10's of millions...while the Columbia is rarely even at 800,000...Wonder why??????

Even further evidence that dams are the problem are the "good" times the fish in the Columbia have experienced the last 3 years. All because of extremely high-water conditions on the rivers. The corp of engineers had no choice but to release water and as a result the smolt were flushed to the ocean. I'd guess the smolt-to-adult returns were in the neighborhood of 3% for the "good" years. Think what they would be like with smolt-to-adult return rates of 30%+, which is common on rivers without dams...

Another key piece of evidence is to look at the Hanford Reach, you'll find that referenced many times. Its one of the last good rearing grounds on the Columbia system that still functions as an undammed river. The return rates for salmon there are again in the 30% range...

The evidence is so crystal clear its scary, the research is the BEST ever conducted, and the solution is so easy to comprehend, most 3rd graders would understand it. Yet, the Shrub administration denies logic, science, and common sense in their tireless efforts to end hunting and fishing in North America...and the idiots continue to vote them into office...pretty sad.
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Old 05-02-2005, 04:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuzzH
the "good" times the fish in the Columbia have experienced the last 3 years.
Good stuff, but I thought this year is down. I was following along pretty good, till the conclusion, its the Shrub administration. He didn't build the dams.

He's holding up taking down the dams, but they've been there 50 years. How feasible is it to take down dams? Does it say that somewhere?

We had a dam on the Medina lake/river here on the west side of town that was close to spilling over a year ago. They evacuated towns down river for miles. Is that what happens when you take down dams partially. How feasible is that?

It would be good for smolt, I see that. Do people actually want to take these dams down?
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Old 05-02-2005, 05:18 PM
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Tom,

You dont take the dams down, you breach them...big difference.

This year is down, which is back to the normal trend of the years between the time of the last dams being built on the Snake-2000. 2001-2003 were "fair" in salmon returns, 2004 there was enough for a season...barely.

Clinton ordered the science and the PATH report...too bad he didnt have time to implement the results. Shrub has the science in hand but lacks the brains to implement it.

So, yes, he is holding up the process that makes sense, will save taxpayers potentially billions, and also restore economies along the Columbia River Basin.

He'd rather spend money taking measuring cups away from Sadam than do anything to help anadromous fish or the environment.
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Old 05-02-2005, 05:28 PM
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Save billions and restore economies, wow! If the state residents paid a decent tag fee, that money could be used for breeching. We need a breech the dam fund raiser, I guess.
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