Am i the only out of state hunter that thinks this is wrong?

schmalts · Dec 18, 2004

I need backup guys, i am fighting for something i really feel strong about.
Don Peay (the big guy for UT F&G) decided to take 25% of the already scarce nonres tags and will make them only available to those who can attend the big convention in UT. He wants to give them to groups like RMEF and others like it. I am all for raising money but this idiot lost all comprehention of how the common man lives.
Clicj=k here to help fight!!

JoseCuervo · Dec 18, 2004

Schmalts,

It doesn't seem like it is fair, and I can't believe it is "Revenue Neutral", as if they were planning on getting $500 for a non-res tag, and a resident draws that tag, will they only get the resident rate???

I don't think this one is as stupid as the idea the AZ guys have of jacking Elk tags up toward $3000. That one is going to get the AZGFD in trouble with the Feds.

But thanks for the link. I have heard a bit about SFW, and after reading that, I am pretty sure they will NEVER get a single one of my dollars.

Water Wapiti · Dec 19, 2004

It's all about $$$
It's all about $$$

Sorry, this time I have to suport the RMEF. But I do understand your dilemna. Seems the states (across the board) are doing everything they can for the MONEY. This is just one example of it.

WW

1_pointer · Dec 19, 2004

Just for clarrification, Don Peay is the head honcho for (Utah) Sportsman for Fish and Wildlife, which now has other chapters in other states. He does not run the UT DWR, well, not officially.

schmalts · Dec 19, 2004

I will not give one more dime to the RMEF after this, what for? to give them more power to take my nonres hunting away ?
Dont just reply here, if you value your hunting reply to that topic or the other one i started there. if you sit back and just say "its all about money" and do nothing , well thats where it will keep going.

JoseCuervo · Dec 19, 2004

Schmalts,

I don't think Non-Resident hunting is designed for the "common man". It is designed to fleece the out of staters (who have no, or little, political voice.). In Idaho, we rely on fleecing the Non-Residents in order to assure all IDahoans can buy $14 deer tags and $28 Elk Tags, OTC.

Utah needs to look at how they can get the most money out of the Non-Residents in order to allow the residents to get the best "value" (ie... either low cost tags or higher quality UTDWR management of their herds.)

I am not sure that RMEF is doing anything wrong, as it looks like they are able to bring another "benefit" to their members, by getting them access to the tags. And also, as a non-resident, in theory, you might be able to get more tags in Utah, as part of the convention tags are resident's tags, that you could now get a chance at claiming.

Bottom line is, if the DWR was expecting to raise $10 million from the sale of tags, assuming 90% Resident, and 10% non-resident, and after this plan, ends up with 98% resident and 2% non-resident, there will either be a revenue shortfall as they only raise $5 million, or they will have to raise resident fees.

I don't think it has been thought all the way through, and like I said, I will not send money to SFW. RMEF still looks good to me.

And there are plenty of Conservation groups that you can fund to improve hunting and fishing (like Idaho Conservation League, Sierra Club, etc.) , that actually accomplish much, and they don't try and play politics inside of Fish and Game commissions.

1_pointer · Dec 19, 2004

I wonder if the tags are going to the National folks of the groups like RMEF, FNAWS, etc or to the state chapters? I couldn't tell from the thread.

Things are gonna be quite a bit different in UT the next couple of years from what I've been hearing in our office from the guy on the RAC. Moreso with elk than anything else.

Tom · Dec 19, 2004

What?

You guys are spoiled. $28 for an elk. Its designed for people on welfare, that's what I'm starting to think. That pays for maybe two months of grass for an elk to eat, nothing for its management. Then, you have those guys go and shoot a whole bunch of elk. What a mess.

I better check out the link, it does sound like a bad idea. That post says its a rumor???

JoseCuervo · Dec 19, 2004

Tom,

You need some help with your math.

An Elk will eat 60% of what a cow eats. A cow, on public land, will eat a $1.26 in grass per month. Therefore an elk will eat about $0.73 per month, or $8.50 per year in feed.

Bambistew · Dec 20, 2004

Non-resident hunting is getting fugged up accross the west! I laugh when I hear hunters say that our hunting is going to get to be just like it is in Europe!! Wake up we are all ready like it! Land owners are taking control of the states game management. Utah makes me want to vomit! Now not only are the land owners getting their "fair share" but now it looks like the conservation groups are getting in on the pile too! What a bunch of BS.

BTW... A OTC resident elk tag in MT is $16!!! Deer is $14... Talk about fleecing the nonresidents. Who shell out $640 for a deer and elk tag...

danr55 · Dec 20, 2004

What are they (RMEF, FNAWS, WTF,ETC) going to do with the tags? Are they going to distribute them to use as rewards for their folks or are they going to auction them to raise money? Sounds like we are only getting half the storey.

1_pointer · Dec 20, 2004

'Gunner- You're off by a few cents. The fed. regs don't allow for less than $1.35/AUM. This year is $1.48/AUM IIRC.

schmalts · Dec 20, 2004

danr55 said:
What are they (RMEF, FNAWS, WTF,ETC) going to do with the tags? Are they going to distribute them to use as rewards for their folks or are they going to auction them to raise money? Sounds like we are only getting half the storey.

Danr they are getting sold at 5$ a chance at the SFW convention in UT, the bullshit is you have to be there to get a chance at them. so now another additional 25% of the nonres bull tags will be clawed up by mostly residents and rich nonres that can afford to fly out there tot he convention. and no, they are not keeping the residents away from the nonres portion of the tags we lost.

schmalts · Dec 20, 2004

1_pointer said:
I wonder if the tags are going to the National folks of the groups like RMEF, FNAWS, etc or to the state chapters? I couldn't tell from the thread.

Things are gonna be quite a bit different in UT the next couple of years from what I've been hearing in our office from the guy on the RAC. Moreso with elk than anything else.

They will all be sold at he convention in UT in one show, you have to be there to apply in person. Don Peay keeps ignoring my question why you have to be there in person and if you can give power of attorney to someone to apply for you. He is an arrogant prick, Email him and ask why here or just sit back and watch you hunting go BY BY to the rich
[email protected]

BuzzH · Dec 20, 2004

Schmalts,

Thanks for the heads up, but it seems to me like its a done deal...am I wrong?

The thing that bothers me in general is that the resident hunters of the various Western States are constantly at the throat of the non-residents. If more money is needed all you hear at the various meetings is "RAISE THE NR FEES, MAKE THEM PAY"...

I'll give you a prime example.

When I served on the WPAC in Montana, the issue of raising more money (through the sale of the State duck Stamp) for wetlands and ducks came up. The FIRST thing to come out of everyones mouth was "Raise NR fees from $5 to $50". I was the ONLY person on the board to say, "BS, raise the price across the board from $5 to $10 for everyone". From the looks I got you would have thought I'd asked residents for an arm, leg, and ten pounds of fat. I tried to explain that the residents have to take responsibility for their share of management...the vote was 9-1 in favor of raising the NR fee, while keeping the resident fees at $5 raising NR fees to $50, which is where its still at.

Its the same story in every state, the residents are not willing to shoulder more of the financial responsibility, just continue to dog-pile the NR's.

I've tried to fight it, make arguements, wrote letters, and its pointless. The resident sportsmen, commissions, and various G&F agencies wont change their "stick it to the NR's mentality", and thats a fact.

The residents have got to start taking on more of the financial responsibility of managing wildlife.

1_pointer · Dec 20, 2004

Buzz- Do you think that is because most don't or won't hunt out of state? For me, having slightly higher resident fees to have drastically lower non-resident fees would be a great thing! No matter what state I live in from now one, I'll be hunting one or two different states each year.

BuzzH · Dec 20, 2004

Pointer,

I think the main reason is just a matter of "thats the way its always been" and despite what residents say, they're a bunch of cheap skates. I could never understand why they gripe about license fees...fees that directly benefit THEM and the sport/game they say they care about so much.

I find it pretty funny that residents will bitch about the price of a $25 tag, then go jump in their $30k truck, drive to their $150K home, and then load up their $1k rifle, $5k atv, spotting scopes, bino's....etc. etc. etc. etc. for their weekend hunting trip. Makes the $25 tag seem pretty trivial in comparison, and frankly they should feel pretty guilty about paying such a small amount.

Most sportsmen talk a big line about supporting wildlife and brag about how much they put into game management...the truth is nearly all of us could afford to put in more. The most direct way to do that is to pay more for your tags/permits.

Ithaca 37 · Dec 20, 2004

In Idaho, any increases in license or tag fees have to be approved by the legislature. There's a huge political hassle every time increases get mentioned, especially resident increases. What politician wants to vote for an extra tax (I know it's not a tax, but that's how they look at it) on their constituents? Especially when those politicians hate the F&G Dept because of it's independence.

danr55 · Dec 20, 2004

Schmaltz, What will be done with the proceeds from the ticket sales? Who gets the cash?

Sako7STW · Dec 20, 2004

Being involved with the RMEF for as long as I was I did alot of dealings with Commisioner tags, Governer tags, ect. These tags are the main bread and butter for organizations like the RMEF. In the verbal auction we always placed the tags in the middle of the bidding. This gave the bidders a chance to get warmed up then the tag would come out and the dollars would fly to 5 digits. Hearing those kind of numbers would get the crowd in a uproar. Then the items that followed would bring in more money due to everyone being hyped up and all of a sudden the $500 dollars they were looking to spend doesnt seam like as much and out of the pocket it would come.

Even then though there was always contreversy over the tags. People would get mad because we allowd people from out of state to bid on the phone. They felt the attendees should get the chance at the tags instead of having Jo-blo millionair being able to bid it out of the common mans reach. HMMMMM What was the object of the banquet and the tags again??????? Raising MONEY thats what.

Hunting has steadily been working towards the rich mans sport. Sad but its the way it is I guess. I think alot of residents want to see the NR tags raised instead of theirs out of greed. Not greed in the way that the NR tags bring in more money while they dont have to spend as much. But in the way that they think the higher the tags the less chance the NR's will pay that amount and so they stay out of their state leaving more game and tags for the residents.

Personally I would like to see residents be able to apply for NR tags in their own state. Everyone knows its all about the money so if I was willing to drop the $500 or whatever it is on better odds for drawing a good tag then why not? I have seen both sides of these dbates and everone has there opinion on who should get what and how it should be done. I am thankful I have it the way I do, I atleast have a chance. I can see a day when all the tags will go to a bidding system for res & non-res alike and look out, were talking $$$$ then.

Am i the only out of state hunter that thinks this is wrong?

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