CO Pt Creep Madness !!!

zimmy said:

So is there any chance of a guy with 10 points getting drawn for a unit like 61 in the next 25 years?

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Currently with a 7.5% downward trend in app's in 61 this is where you currently stand with current application numbers if you have 10 pts....

61A- 9 Years
61M- 22 Years
61R1- 8 Years
61R2-4 - 7 Years

Obviously if it trends upward again, you'd be looking at longer...

Thanks Snekem that was what I was looking for.

So...I have an interesting idea ? Would making the pp's be weapon specific help the point creep thing or hurt it ???

Trigger50 said:

So...I have an interesting idea ? Would making the pp's be weapon specific help the point creep thing or hurt it ???

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It's already weapon specific...unless I'm going crazy.

.....and I've looked at the Colorado draw odds / maps for so many hours of my life I might just be crazy.

Preference points are species specific not weapon specific.

Making preference points weapon-specific does not create more tags nor reduce the number of applicants.

If you want to reduce point creep for all but the elite hunts then support changing the law so that if you obtain a Colorado tag then your points for that species resets to ZERO, Draw a tag? Zero. Leftover tag? Zero. OTC tag? Zero. Landowner tag? Zero. Win a tag or buy one in auction? Zero.

As for elite hunts, there will always be more hunters who are patient due to being young or misguided or have lots of other hunt opportunities than the number of tags awarded.

LopeHunter said:

If you want to reduce point creep for all but the elite hunts then support changing the law so that if you obtain a Colorado tag then your points for that species resets to ZERO, Draw a tag? Zero. Leftover tag? Zero. OTC tag? Zero. Landowner tag? Zero. Win a tag or buy one in auction? Zero.

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I think I like this idea.

or change it like Idaho.... no preference or bonus points... everyone has an equal chance.... the only thing I would change is if you drew any draw tag you had too wait 5 years before reapplying,
Matt

Duck-Slayer said:

or change it like Idaho.... no preference or bonus points... everyone has an equal chance.... the only thing I would change is if you drew any draw tag you had too wait 5 years before reapplying,
Matt

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All deer in Colorado are by drawing, it's hard enough to get a tag every other year where I live. I already have to travel to Wyoming to get my speed goat fix, lets not add deer to that list too

I'm in the same boat. I have 13 pts right now. How I come about not using them is at first I was just building some points. Then it looked like I was going to be moving to Wy. That would have allowed me to scout several units and pick one. Now it doesn't look like I'll make it to Wy. Cashed in my 8 pts for Wy this year. Hope to do something in the next 5 years with my Colorado pts.

Jorgy said:

All deer in Colorado are by drawing, it's hard enough to get a tag every other year where I live. I already have to travel to Wyoming to get my speed goat fix, lets not add deer to that list too

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here in Idaho you can pretty much hunt everything every year..... except the big 3, lots of OTC elk and deer tags in good units and the archery antelope 2nd tag is unlimited..... Idaho is the best period..... I shoot a Deer/Elk/and some times Antelope every year with my bow.......
Matt

Trigger50 said:

Preference points are species specific not weapon specific.

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10-4 trigger. I understand what you're saying now. My apologies.

firefranco said:

I'll have to admit I am one of those guys dumb enough to buy into the BS 23 years ago. Looked promising at the start, then the rules continued to evolve. Non-residents could no longer hunt Ranching for Wildlife. Percentage of tags for NR reduced. Now I hear Landowner tags will make a dent in the available tags. Main reason I have stuck with it is my hunting partner took a nice 379 Bull in one of those units and knows the unit very well. The carrot is just ahead. I'm almost there? I subscribe to one of those Hunting magazines. They can provide me a great list of outfitters not much else in the advice area. I am a retired public servant. Putting two kids through college takes care of my excess dollars. I am looking at other units now. Getting older and slower and I haven't seen many 4x4 power chairs that can get you into the backcountry.

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I am in a very similar boat. When I started the point chase it took 7 points to draw in unit 201. Now I have 23 points and I can't draw. Like you I also have two kids in college, so I can't afford to pay for a high dollar hunt.

Wow lots of negative Nancy's on this topic! I apply in 4 states as a non-res and continue to build points. I enjoy drawing tags in my home state (ID) or just hunt OTC tags every year. I will get to hunt some great tags before I'm done. I get that some folks are frustrated because they are max points and cant get lucky but welcome to paying your dues and taking your chances.... Hell last year I pulled a Nevada bull tag with 5 points and odds pointed to a 10 to 15 year wait. Granted it was a bonus point system not a PP system. Bottom line is when I'm ready to hunt I can get a quality tag and go hunt.

Keep burning your points and make more room for more of us bottom dwellers

When I got into the CO PP game, I knew this could happen, so I'm not really too worried about it. When I started applying, I called CDOW (now CPW) and asked how many NR elk apps were in front of me. Wow, it was more than I could have imagined, but I decided to take my chance, with full awareness that it would take a long time to plow through those ahead of me.

I did some analysis before I started. Worst case told me it could take 25+ years for a rifle tag in the premium NW units, archery slightly less. Actually, some of it has turned out better than it could have, as over the last 20 years, CO has increased tag totals in some of the better units. That has burned through the point pile a bit quicker than my worst case projections. And, a few other units have popped up on the recommended list of some of the research services, causing some of the top point holders to dump points in those newly promoted units.

As expected, many NRs them sat on the sidelines and bought points until they knew their odds were good. That is what creates point creep from year to year. An outcome that can be projected with a fair amount of certainty at any point in time. Now, at 19 elk points, I'm sitting here still biding my time.

Frustration is a result of unmet expectations. In the case of point creep, I think expectations go unmet when we don't sit down and evaluate the worst case scenarios. Odds are, with such high demand as exists for western elk hunting in units with a lot of public land, the worst case scenario for points/years it takes is probably going to be similar to the worst case scenario.

For those frustrated with CO, look north and you see the same process unfolding in WY; just a decade behind, albeit giving a few guys a statistical chance by allocating 25% of the tags to the random draw. I would bet in five years, many hunters will also be surprised at the point creep in Wyoming's top elk and deer units. Especially if they reduce the allocation of tags to NRs. I think that is why we saw a lot of higher point holders dump points in WY this year, and even more will do so next year.

AZ has changed their system for NRs, where the top units are virtually a preference point system for NRs and the point creep is getting to be more and more each year. What will be interesting is to see if folks get back in to the point games in theses three states (CO, WY, AZ), once they dump their points.

I wish those that cry every year about wanting a point system in Idaho would read these posts scattered across all forums and states regarding the problems with the points game. About the only thing I would like to see Idaho go to is a 2 year waiting period on antlered controlled hunts and a 1 year for the either sex ones. As someone that is only buying points in 2 states and doesn't have very many of them its scary to think how little they are really worth.

I'll be spending my points in Co in the next year or 2.I'm in the middle of nowhere with 5.I'll use them on a unit that should give me a good hunt but not huge chance at any trophy sized animal.I think I'll probably buy points again just to hunt units with less pressure then an otc unit.
I do like Dinkshooter idea of road closures to increase some age in otc units.

i would like to see idaho go to a points system possibly for moose, sheep and goats but that's just my opinion

idahojoe said:

i would like to see idaho go to a points system possibly for moose, sheep and goats but that's just my opinion

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What makes you think this would be good?

So I could actually draw a moose tag.. LOL