tarheel
Well-known member
This is in no way intended to be a political thread, but one regarding the future of the Sage Grouse.http://news.yahoo.com/bird-known-mating-dance-may-decide-senate-fate-124650685--election.html
Possible Sage Grouse relisting.
- Thread starter tarheel
- Start date
sbhooper
Well-known member
Here we go again. They cannot leave the west alone.
This probably would be both good and bad news to many. If you've driven down I80 through Wyo lately you'll notice how the country is shredded with oilfield and windmill roads. A 200,000 acre ranch in Wyo where I antelope hunted for years is planning on cutting gobs of roads for windmills and is already shredded with extensive oil field pads and roads. This could almost be a blessing in disguise to protect critical winter range from being tore up and disturbance. It's bad news for those that may like to hunt sage grouse.
BuzzH
Well-known member
sbhooper has a good point, industry cant leave the West alone, neither can livestock producers, farmers, the corp of engineers, etc.
The issue of sage grouse is a complicated matter. It seems to me that some states have responded well to address concerns and mitigate some of the impacts of development. Others, not so much.
IMO, I believe that WY has been the most proactive. We have identified and protected a good portion of the most critical habitat. We have also maintained a hunting season with pretty strict bag limits and relatively short hunting seasons. That is a good idea, its keeps hunters in the game providing funding, while also not allowing the anti-hunting crowd to declare a victory on stopping a season. I can also tell you that Governor Mead is prepared and ready to look at any management that will keep sage grouse off the list.
I do not support the no listing for ten years business that the R's are proposing, nor do I support the immediate listing of the entire species.
IMO, I believe we still have some time to get to the table and work on some solutions. However, those showing up to the table better be willing to compromise, take off the blinders, and get serious about figuring this out.
The political rhetoric and the end-running of the ESA is not going to help anything. It will only ensure listing in ten years and allow for ZERO progress to solving the problems NOW and saving sage grouse in the long term.
Lose-Lose with the ten year moratorium on keeping them off the list.
The issue of sage grouse is a complicated matter. It seems to me that some states have responded well to address concerns and mitigate some of the impacts of development. Others, not so much.
IMO, I believe that WY has been the most proactive. We have identified and protected a good portion of the most critical habitat. We have also maintained a hunting season with pretty strict bag limits and relatively short hunting seasons. That is a good idea, its keeps hunters in the game providing funding, while also not allowing the anti-hunting crowd to declare a victory on stopping a season. I can also tell you that Governor Mead is prepared and ready to look at any management that will keep sage grouse off the list.
I do not support the no listing for ten years business that the R's are proposing, nor do I support the immediate listing of the entire species.
IMO, I believe we still have some time to get to the table and work on some solutions. However, those showing up to the table better be willing to compromise, take off the blinders, and get serious about figuring this out.
The political rhetoric and the end-running of the ESA is not going to help anything. It will only ensure listing in ten years and allow for ZERO progress to solving the problems NOW and saving sage grouse in the long term.
Lose-Lose with the ten year moratorium on keeping them off the list.
bigskyblueman
Member
As per the Billings Gazette, FWP has changed their mind with regard to closing the season this year.
I agree. I know Utah has been quite proactive as well as I was involved with local working groups centered around sage grouse as far back as '03-'04. Good work is being done and as of 2010 when I left, the work was producing relatively good results.
If a listing needs to occur, due to the work done and being done, I don't see the need for a range wide listing. They can do it by smaller areas or populations like they have done with the pygmy rabbit.
Agreed. I just hope that USFWS doesn't make the same mistakes they made with DPS & wolves.
In the end, it all comes down to habitat. Conserve the habitat now and you not only save the thunder chicken, you end up helping mule deer, elk, etc.
Here's a good op-ed from TRCP & MT BHA on the issue:
http://billingsgazette.com/news/opi...cle_dc7a2a55-3230-5c0a-8e9e-b25a3e949f3f.html
"Conserve the habitat" is a great goal. Just don't get more than one biologist in the room to agree on the definition of what constitutes "habitat" and "good"... It gets real fun when you get to do that in court and the judge decides who's definition is better.
I agree, though that is where the conservation of a species has to start. One thing that miller and a few folks made me quite aware of when I was just getting involved with sage grouse is that what's good for one population/location is not always good elsewhere. Some places saving sagebrush for the birds was/is greatly needed. I almost invented ways of killing it where I was working to help the birds! Again, the D6 can be a sage hen's best friend...
It gets real fun when you get to do that in court and the judge decides who's definition is better. I agree, though that is where the conservation of a species has to start. One thing that miller and a few folks made me quite aware of when I was just getting involved with sage grouse is that what's good for one population/location is not always good elsewhere. Some places saving sagebrush for the birds was/is greatly needed. I almost invented ways of killing it where I was working to help the birds! Again, the D6 can be a sage hen's best friend...
"Conserve the habitat" is a great goal. Just don't get more than one biologist in the room to agree on the definition of what constitutes "habitat" and "good"...
I agree, though that is where the conservation of a species has to start. One thing that miller and a few folks made me quite aware of when I was just getting involved with sage grouse is that what's good for one population/location is not always good elsewhere. Some places saving sagebrush for the birds was/is greatly needed. I almost invented ways of killing it where I was working to help the birds! Again, the D6 can be a sage hen's best friend...
Hopefully the DOI hears that from the states and follows through.
I am not opposed to a D6. I am less opposed to a D9 though. Bigger is better!
Rat Fink
Member
D9's are always best!
Tyler, just got back from a meeting and was told Deseret sage-grouse numbers peaked in 2010 and have decreased from '10-'14. Maybe you have some contacts that can validate.
I sorta know the new wildlife biologist/manager there, I'll see if I can get any info from him. Now you've piqued my interest as to what's going on in the rest of the county as well.
The guy I worked with has left. I'm not sure if he retired or if he has taken over other properties for them in WY.
The guy I worked with has left. I'm not sure if he retired or if he has taken over other properties for them in WY.
Just got off the phone with the wildlife manager at Deseret. Grouse populations grew until about '08. From '08 to '12 they dropped ~40% total with a rate of decrease of about 10-15%/year. Numbers were up slightly in '13 and up by nearly 20% in '14. The long term trend, since the early '80s is still up, but that's a bit confounded as they spend more time/effort counting them now than then. He also stated that much of the state experienced the same population pattern as the ranch, though the magnitude may have been a bit different.
His opinion as to what has happened on the ranch is largely weather driven. He said the '08/'09 winter was hard on the birds. Likewise, they have shifted the focus some of where they are doing their vegetation treatments. He thinks they overshot the treated acres on the winter range a touch in that they don't quite have what they need for those 1 in 10 winters. That was largely done to help locate and keep the wintering elk off the highways and neighboring properties. They are now focusing a bit more on higher elevation areas for vegetation treatments to help the mule deer and hopefully provide more brood rearing food for the grouse.
And to think I thought it was because I left...
His opinion as to what has happened on the ranch is largely weather driven. He said the '08/'09 winter was hard on the birds. Likewise, they have shifted the focus some of where they are doing their vegetation treatments. He thinks they overshot the treated acres on the winter range a touch in that they don't quite have what they need for those 1 in 10 winters. That was largely done to help locate and keep the wintering elk off the highways and neighboring properties. They are now focusing a bit more on higher elevation areas for vegetation treatments to help the mule deer and hopefully provide more brood rearing food for the grouse.
And to think I thought it was because I left...
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