ID F&G Survey

smarandr · Oct 6, 2015

Looks like the topic of a bonus/preference point system and auction tags is back in the exploratory phase with the commission. Doesn't look like the survey will hit for a week or two, but when it does be sure to let them know your opinion. My hope is that the response will be strong enough (either way) that it keeps the legislature from meddling like they have the last few sessions.
http://fishandgame.idaho.gov/public/media/viewNewsRelease.cfm?newsID=7884

idahofishnhunt · Oct 6, 2015

So ridiculous, at least give us the season without being bombarded with this crap. I would have thought they'd try and throw in lowering the age limit to 8 or something as well, why not...it's just a repeat every year of the same issues.

TheDudeAbides · Oct 6, 2015

It's a catch 22.

Bonus/Pref points will bring more money and revenue into Idaho, because on years as an NR when you do not plan to hunt it - you can still buy a license and buy points to improve your chances when you want to hunt it.

In a Lottery system with the tag fees up-front the draw odds are and will continue to be better. The current system is tailored towards residents, there is no guarantee that a non resident will draw a tag and the tags are limited to 10%.

I like the idea of a bonus point or bonus point squared system at least for non-residents like myself, but they would have to split the draws.

Splitting the draws would lead to less tags for resident hunters, since there is no guarantee that non-residents will draw a tag.

I wouldn't be against if they left the draw the same and went with bonus points or bonus point squared all around.

I kind of wish Wyoming would do it for resident Deer, Elk, and Pronghorn.

d-bone20917 · Oct 6, 2015

There is no guarantee that residents will draw a tag either.

HowaHunter · Oct 6, 2015

no point system crap! We should have to sit out 4-5 years then we can put in for horns again. let some people cycle through. I would love to have my kids have a chance at drawing some nice tags.

LopeHunter · Oct 6, 2015

Point systems do not create more tags. Same number of tags means the only thing a point system achieves is screwing over anyone not in max point year which includes youngsters a year or two from being eligible to apply. Look at Wyoming. Plenty of pronghorn so a NR kid is not penalized as badly for being 6 years behind on first year they can apply. Sheep is a screw job for the kid. No chance in hell will draw a sheep tag except in the smaller Random bucket.

Now, why is a point system a good thing for someone who is not selfish? As for "I put in 20 years and never drew an elk tag while Jimmy gets a tag every couple of years" crap well statistics can be hard but if Jimmy puts in for 1:2 draw odds elk tags and you put in for primo unit that is 1:50 odds then you should draw once every 50 years and Jimmy should every couple of years.

Mandatory wait periods to apply or making tags once in a lifetime can prevent the "lucky" hunter who might beat lottery style odds and pull two sheep tags in back to back years.

Elkmagnet · Oct 6, 2015

TheDudeAbides said:
It's a catch 22.

Bonus/Pref points will bring more money and revenue into Idaho, because on years as an NR when you do not plan to hunt it - you can still buy a license and buy points to improve your chances when you want to hunt it.

In a Lottery system with the tag fees up-front the draw odds are and will continue to be better. The current system is tailored towards residents, there is no guarantee that a non resident will draw a tag and the tags are limited to 10%.

I like the idea of a bonus point or bonus point squared system at least for non-residents like myself, but they would have to split the draws.

Splitting the draws would lead to less tags for resident hunters, since there is no guarantee that non-residents will draw a tag.

I wouldn't be against if they left the draw the same and went with bonus points or bonus point squared all around.

I kind of wish Wyoming would do it for resident Deer, Elk, and Pronghorn.

None of this makes sense

1_pointer · Oct 7, 2015

I'm firmly in the no points camp for Idaho. IMO, a completely random draw like they do is the fairest of the fair systems.

6speed · Oct 7, 2015

This appears to be the commission's answer to the backdoor hose job the legislature tried last spring. Idaho doesn't want or need points. More auction tags are a slippery slope and must be managed to the full benefit of wildlife not the benefit of people with deep pockets or so called sportsmen organizations that seem to play pool in said pockets. What this says to me is the commission already has a heads up that more of this legislation is headed our way and they want some public opinion to head them off. This will be a yearly struggle as long as Moyle, Siddoway, and their crew remain in state government.

smarandr · Oct 7, 2015

6speed said:
This appears to be the commission's answer to the backdoor hose job the legislature tried last spring. Idaho doesn't want or need points. More auction tags are a slippery slope and must be managed to the full benefit of wildlife not the benefit of people with deep pockets or so called sportsmen organizations that seem to play pool in said pockets. What this says to me is the commission already has a heads up that more of this legislation is headed our way and they want some public opinion to head them off. This will be a yearly struggle as long as Moyle, Siddoway, and their crew remain in state government.

My takeaway as well.

ERSS · Oct 7, 2015

I had and exchange with Senator Siddoway back in March about this topic, here was his response...

Concerning: HB 32

With the following comments:

Senator Siddoway,
In regards to your email to the Idaho Fish and Game Commissioners about who is authorized to set policy and who is tasked with carrying out said policy....
These proposals have been vetted by the people of Idaho and found to not be the direction the vast majority of Idaho residents and sportsman want the management of our wildlife resources to go. We all see what has happened in UT and feel strongly about maintaining our hunting heritage, with equal opportunity for all Idaho residents. I am for a license increase as good management costs money, but as far as other proposals that were added to this bill, they are not in the best interest of the Idaho sportsman or Idaho's wildlife.
I appreciate the work you do representing Eastern Idaho, however these proposals for policy change do not represent the views or desires of Idahoan's, just a select few who would benefit.
Sincerely,
Jeff Anderson

His email reply -

Jeff,
I am not going to get into a debate, but what do you think would happen if you presented these ideas to members of the Farm Bureau? You get to focus. I have to listen to everyone.
Siddoway

Elkmagnet · Oct 7, 2015

ERSS said:
I had and exchange with Senator Siddoway back in March about this topic, here was his response...

Concerning: HB 32

With the following comments:

Senator Siddoway,
In regards to your email to the Idaho Fish and Game Commissioners about who is authorized to set policy and who is tasked with carrying out said policy....
These proposals have been vetted by the people of Idaho and found to not be the direction the vast majority of Idaho residents and sportsman want the management of our wildlife resources to go. We all see what has happened in UT and feel strongly about maintaining our hunting heritage, with equal opportunity for all Idaho residents. I am for a license increase as good management costs money, but as far as other proposals that were added to this bill, they are not in the best interest of the Idaho sportsman or Idaho's wildlife.
I appreciate the work you do representing Eastern Idaho, however these proposals for policy change do not represent the views or desires of Idahoan's, just a select few who would benefit.
Sincerely,
Jeff Anderson

His email reply -

Jeff,
I am not going to get into a debate, but what do you think would happen if you presented these ideas to members of the Farm Bureau? You get to focus. I have to listen to everyone.
Siddoway

What a tool!

#richpeoplematter
Money,money...MONEY!
Sincerely theirs, Jeff Siddoway 35th district Idaho

TheDudeAbides · Oct 7, 2015

elkmagnet said:
None of this makes sense

This year I am hunting Idaho on the OTC tag.

Next year, I probably wont hunt Idaho.

If there was a point system, I would buy the $150 license, pay the $15 app fee, and pay a $20 point fee to increase my chances in the future for drawing moose.

If there is no point system, Idaho does not get the $185 dollars for someone who is not going to hunt there.

As far as a no points system,

Wyoming does not have one for residents.

Antelope Unit 92 15% chance of drawing

Deer Unit 102 4.3% chance of drawing

Elk Unit 100 2% chance of drawing

I know people that have gone 8-16 years between drawing antelope at 15% or so draw odds. A bonus point system would reward those who have applied with an additional chance each year, it is still no guarantee of drawing a tag - but it still rewards those who do not draw with something rather than nothing.

smarandr · Oct 7, 2015

TheDudeAbides said:
If there is no point system, Idaho does not get the $185 dollars for someone who is not going to hunt there.

I know at least one hunter (the owner of this site) who donates that fee to ID F&G nearly every year.

Flatland Crusoe · Oct 7, 2015

I have really mixed feelings as NR of any western state that hunts out west about preference and bonus points. I like the idea of being able to build preference towards a future hunt with committing to it for the year given dealing with limited vacation and 15-24 hour drives for hunts.

The problem is the current state of western PP's is pure age discrimination in practice. You didn't start putting in for points some nebulous year in the 90's or early 2000's and you will never hunt sheep or goats in your lifetime in the lower 48. Weren't even old enough to buy a point when the system started, even worse. PP's work well for tags that roll through with enough frequency that they stabilize inside of a decade, beyond that you have to go to a pure draw system or it doesn't work. There are deer and elk tags that haven't kept creeping a point a year for 20 years and that is the system failing.

PP's are about generating revenue for the state agencies for something whose cost doesn't go beyond basic administrative fees. I'm personally of the mentality that out of state tags become a commodity where opportunity, time and costs figure into where I spend my money.

smarandr · Oct 7, 2015

Here's a nice thread about the history of bonus points: http://onyourownadventures.com/hunttalk/showthread.php?t=253957

brymoore · Oct 7, 2015

At one point IDF&G did a financial study on the bonus point system and determined that the cost to administer the system would be more than the anticipated increase in revenue.

Here's my take on it. The commission is conducting the survey to get a response from hunters on options for changes to control tag drawings. This includes BP or an extended wait period. They are conducting a survey on governor tags as part of the process.

If the results show that BP and governor tags are not favored by sportsmen (both have been passed by legislator) then the commission has evidence to provide to the legislature to support its position not to enact either option.

The commission wants a price increase which was blocked by Moyle due to BPs. If the results of the survey support BPs, the commission is going to have a hard time not implementing them so that a price increase may occur.

I don't like the way the survey is being conducted but vote if you get selected.

1_pointer · Oct 7, 2015

TheDudeAbides said:
This year I am hunting Idaho on the OTC tag.

Next year, I probably wont hunt Idaho.

If there was a point system, I would buy the $150 license, pay the $15 app fee, and pay a $20 point fee to increase my chances in the future for drawing moose.

If there is no point system, Idaho does not get the $185 dollars for someone who is not going to hunt there.

As far as a no points system,

Wyoming does not have one for residents.

Antelope Unit 92 15% chance of drawing

Deer Unit 102 4.3% chance of drawing

Elk Unit 100 2% chance of drawing

I know people that have gone 8-16 years between drawing antelope at 15% or so draw odds. A bonus point system would reward those who have applied with an additional chance each year, it is still no guarantee of drawing a tag - but it still rewards those who do not draw with something rather than nothing.

The beauty of Idaho's system is that you may draw relatively quickly. Springing a lesser amount of money for years where you don't or all but don't have a shot at the tag, but you get a point gets tiresome.

smarandr · Oct 7, 2015

brymoore said:
I don't like the way the survey is being conducted but vote if you get selected.

Don't fret:

During October, Fish and Game will conduct a series of surveys. The first will be a random-sample mail survey, which will be sent in early October. That will be followed by an e-mail survey randomly sent to a limited number of hunters, then Fish and Game will conduct a survey on its website that any hunter can take.

idahofishnhunt · Oct 7, 2015

ERSS said:
I had and exchange with Senator Siddoway back in March about this topic, here was his response...

Concerning: HB 32

With the following comments:

Senator Siddoway,
In regards to your email to the Idaho Fish and Game Commissioners about who is authorized to set policy and who is tasked with carrying out said policy....
These proposals have been vetted by the people of Idaho and found to not be the direction the vast majority of Idaho residents and sportsman want the management of our wildlife resources to go. We all see what has happened in UT and feel strongly about maintaining our hunting heritage, with equal opportunity for all Idaho residents. I am for a license increase as good management costs money, but as far as other proposals that were added to this bill, they are not in the best interest of the Idaho sportsman or Idaho's wildlife.
I appreciate the work you do representing Eastern Idaho, however these proposals for policy change do not represent the views or desires of Idahoan's, just a select few who would benefit.
Sincerely,
Jeff Anderson

His email reply -

Jeff,
I am not going to get into a debate, but what do you think would happen if you presented these ideas to members of the Farm Bureau? You get to focus. I have to listen to everyone.
Siddoway

Wow...what a douchebag this guy is.

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