300 rum or 338 rum

Pretty much everything shot with that edge had a gaping hole you could shove a soft ball through. Since my 7mm has been built I have watched 35+ critters hit the dirt with it the majority being high shoulder shots and I have yet to see a hole even close to what the 338 was doing. Im not saying the 7mm wont do this but it is FAR less common.
 
A 338 wildcat vs an antelope is a poor example and was a poor choice of caliber by you in my opinion. What about a 338 vs a large elk or moose? Taking a 1200 yard shot at an animal and then talking down a round because of its terrible affect on an antelope? Do you really care what happens to your an animal when shooting at it at 1200 yards? Hmm, you may need to take a step back and think about this for a second.

I did not want to post this as I would like to see the OP get as much help as possible with his question but I could not hold back on this one.
 
Big Foot said:
A 338 wildcat vs an antelope is a poor example and was a poor choice of caliber by you in my opinion. What about a 338 vs a large elk or moose? Taking a 1200 yard shot at an animal and then talking down a round because of its terrible affect on an antelope? Do you really care what happens to your an animal when shooting at it at 1200 yards? Hmm, you may need to take a step back and think about this for a second.

I did not want to post this as I would like to see the OP get as much help as possible with his question but I could not hold back on this one.
Click to expand...

You obviously didn't finish reading the comment. After seeing the damage done by this gun It was sold the amount of meat ruined on larger game like elk was far greater than that of the 7mm. Don't tell me to take a step back when the Op is considering shots out to 1200 yards as well, and don't preach to me about ethical shots at 1200 yards. I have seen far more game wounded and lossed at 300 and in by the average Joe shooting his 30-06 with remington Core-Lokts. Just because you feel its careless to execute a long shot does not mean it is. Your opinion is just that and its individuals like yourself that need to take a step back and think about this. Is it unethical or careless to wound an animal in the excitement of a jump shot @ 100 yards? Is it unethical or careless to execute a precise shot and kill the animal before he hears the report of the shot?
 
Thanks to every one that posted a reply to my ? The info has helped
 
BackCountryMulies said:
You obviously didn't finish reading the comment. After seeing the damage done by this gun It was sold the amount of meat ruined on larger game like elk was far greater than that of the 7mm. Don't tell me to take a step back when the Op is considering shots out to 1200 yards as well, and don't preach to me about ethical shots at 1200 yards. I have seen far more game wounded and lossed at 300 and in by the average Joe shooting his 30-06 with remington Core-Lokts. Just because you feel its careless to execute a long shot does not mean it is. Your opinion is just that and its individuals like yourself that need to take a step back and think about this. Is it unethical or careless to wound an animal in the excitement of a jump shot @ 100 yards? Is it unethical or careless to execute a precise shot and kill the animal before he hears the report of the shot?
Click to expand...

Well state BCM. The use of heavy guns and long-range shooting is always going to be a discussion. None of it is a matter of legality, but is a matter of ethics. I have seen complete bozos shooting standard calibers that cannot hit a five-gallon bucket at 200 yards.

The people that understand the science of long-range shooting do not bother me as much as that bozo with the 06. The part that bothers me is that all of the long-range shooting shows on tv make that same bozo think that if he buys a dial-a-shot scope, he can go out and start popping at stuff at 500+ yards.

I personally think that these rifles are turning hunters into long-range target shooters instead of developing hunting skills. As I said, it is not a legal problem, but an ethics problem and for that reason, there is really not a good argument against it that will hold up. What people consider ethical in any circumstance will have arguments from all sides. Hell, some people are extremely over-matched at 300 yards, so there is really no definition of long-range, either.

The part of the long-range stuff that I do appreciate, is the technology and science that has gone into these shooting platforms-amazing equipment at any range!
 
BackCountryMulies said:
Unless hes planning on building a Warbird, a 30-378 will smoke the 300 RUM on FPS after all that seems to be what you guys that insist on shooting these canons are all about.

Lets elaborate on the subject of my .284 out performing the canons. First I will run it with relatively close bullets 190 VLD VS 180 VLD that 30-378 has me beat by 250 fps by 1400 theres 14 inches between our points of impact. The 300 rum has me beat by 140 fps but at 1000 yards I have 2 inches less drop. not to mention the amount of powder or lack of Im using. Please note how awesome them fast bullets do at longer distances they fall flat on there face.

30-378 190 VLD @ 3300 fps
30-378 165 TSX @ 3475 fps
300 RUM 190 VLD @ 3190 fps
300 RUM 165 TSX @ 3350 fps
7mm LRM 180 VLD @ 3050 fps

800 yards / 10 mph cross wind
30-378 WBY - 102 inches of drop and 29 inches of wind
165 gr- 108 inches of drop and 42 inches of wind
300 RUM - 110 inches of drop and 31 inches of wind
165 gr- 119 inches of drop and 46 inches of wind
7mm LRM- 111 inches of drop and 25 inches of wind

1000 yards/ 10 mph cross wind
30-378 WBY- 187 inches of drop and 48 inches of wind
165 gr- 208 inches of drop and 72 inches of wind
300 RUM - 202 inches of drop and 50 inches of wind
165 gr- 229 inches of drop and 77 inches of wind
7mm LRM- 200 inches of drop and 41 inches of wind

1200 yards / 10 mph cross wind
30-378 WBY- 308 inches of drop and 73 inches of wind
165 gr- 360 inches of drop and 113 inches of wind
300 RUM - 333 inches of wind and 77 inches of wind
165 gr- 398 inches of drop and 121 inches of wind
7mm LRM- 324 inches of wind and 64 inches of wind

1400 yards/ 10mph cross wind
30-378 WBY- 475 inches of drop and 105 inches of wind
165 gr- 588 inches of drop and 166 inches of wind
300 RUM - 514 inches of drop and 111 inches of wind
165 gr- 653 inches of drop and 179 inches of wind
7mm LRM- 489 inches of drop and 89 inches of wind

Meanwhile Im over here- Like hows the wind and your face feeling!

Conclusion- My .284 Just smoked your big canon with that last low in the wind :) and dont even think about killing an elk past 1100 yards with the 165 GR that was hauling ass at the muzzle because you are now right at 800 ft-lbs of energy
Click to expand...

Your RUM velocity is low and your 7lrm is high. Rerun the rum with a 208 a max at 3100. I bet I have you beat with energy all day long.
 
BackCountryMulies said:
I mean really its all about shot placement this bull took one step backwards before falling over dead with a 180 gr bullet out of a 7mm @ 1258 yards

Click to expand...

Looks like a lot of blood for a 1258yd shot with a Berger. Can't argue it looks dead to me. However,please run your ballistics for the 30and338 with heavy for caliber bullets like you did your 284 when you give analysis. Most all long rangers shoot heavy for caliber slugs. Sounds more like a commercial for the seven than a comparison to see which drifts less in wind. I have and do still shoot them all. For elk for the person who reloads, I would go with the 338 edge for distance shooting. For factory ammo go with 300rum in 200gr category. 208 Amax works for me very well in 300 Tomahawk(an improved 300RUM)
 
sbhooper said:
Well state BCM. The use of heavy guns and long-range shooting is always going to be a discussion. None of it is a matter of legality, but is a matter of ethics. I have seen complete bozos shooting standard calibers that cannot hit a five-gallon bucket at 200 yards.

The people that understand the science of long-range shooting do not bother me as much as that bozo with the 06. The part that bothers me is that all of the long-range shooting shows on tv make that same bozo think that if he buys a dial-a-shot scope, he can go out and start popping at stuff at 500+ yards.

I personally think that these rifles are turning hunters into long-range target shooters instead of developing hunting skills. As I said, it is not a legal problem, but an ethics problem and for that reason, there is really not a good argument against it that will hold up. What people consider ethical in any circumstance will have arguments from all sides. Hell, some people are extremely over-matched at 300 yards, so there is really no definition of long-range, either.

The part of the long-range stuff that I do appreciate, is the technology and science that has gone into these shooting platforms-amazing equipment at any range!
Click to expand...

Ethics has always been different from everyones point of view. From my point of view when you are shooting at game from 1200 yards away you are not hunting you are just shooting. It matters not how much money you put into your weapon or how much you practice at the range. There are just too many variables, say the animals takes a step at the moment you pull the triger and it takes a couple of seconds for the bullet to arrive, or the wind is blowing differently between you and the animal, that is a lot of space for something to go wrong.
I'm sure you long range gunners will disagree with me but I believe part of hunting involves putting you "hunting" skills to the test, not seeing how far you can shoot.
 
It comes down to energy for me when deciding how far I can ethically shoot something...I know I can reach past 1k, and the animal is much larger than the steel targets but I still don't try. With my 300 wby mag shooting 165 BST I feel really comfortable in regards to energy and performance out to 800. With my 800 yard goal in mind, the 300 wby performs exactly how I want it too as far as my hunting style and conditions. I like to keep energy around 1500#s on impact. Just my preference and I'm partial to wby.
 
Gr8bawana said:
Ethics has always been different from everyones point of view. From my point of view when you are shooting at game from 1200 yards away you are not hunting you are just shooting. It matters not how much money you put into your weapon or how much you practice at the range. There are just too many variables, say the animals takes a step at the moment you pull the triger and it takes a couple of seconds for the bullet to arrive, or the wind is blowing differently between you and the animal, that is a lot of space for something to go wrong.
I'm sure you long range gunners will disagree with me but I believe part of hunting involves putting you "hunting" skills to the test, not seeing how far you can shoot.
Click to expand...

While hanging out with some guides/wranglers in Cody, Wyoming recently, I found out what their opinion of long-range "hunters" is. They think it is crap and is destroying hunting for what it is. I tend to agree, but digress to my previous post on legality/ethics.

One guy told me that they have people that only want to shoot something, if they can shoot it over 600 yards. What a bunch of crap. I could not be an outfitter.
 
Some like to brag about how far they can shoot a deer/elk/antelope from. While I won't question the skill (and luck) needed to hit an animal at 1,000 yards, they are target shooters who practice on live animals. I don't like it one bit.

I have MUCH more respect for the guys who brag about how close they got to an animal before pulling the trigger. They are the true hunters, in my mind.

I'm sure many won't agree with me, but no amount of arguing will change my mind on this topic.
 
I won't get into the ethics of long range shooting, but if you are looking at getting a rifle built, check out Dead Down Range Rifles. they are built in Butte Mt, and Tyler does awesome work. Just another option to look at.
 
Gr8bawana said:
say the animals takes a step at the moment you pull the triger and it takes a couple of seconds for the bullet to arrive,
Click to expand...

How long does it take a bullet to travel a mile? Say if it's got a BC of .6 and you're getting 3250fps out of the muzzle?
 
Guys that are dedicated to really understanding their gun, shoot a lot, and know what they are doing really don't bug me. Its the ones that buy a big caliber, a scope with turrets, and just figure good enough are the ones that scare me. I see way, way more of the latter and hear the horror stories that go with them
 
How important is it to see your bullet impact? Relevant to recoil...

How many lbs of rifle are you willing to carry?

The big magnums can become less attractive when you think about some of the other details, even when your goal is to be able to shoot 500-1000 yards on a calm day.
 
Greenhorn said:
How important is it to see your bullet impact? Relevant to recoil...

How many lbs of rifle are you willing to carry?

The big magnums can become less attractive when you think about some of the other details, even when your goal is to be able to shoot 500-1000 yards on a calm day.
Click to expand...

It's funny how the guys that seem to shoot LR the most use the smaller cartridges.
 
TheTone said:
Guys that are dedicated to really understanding their gun, shoot a lot, and know what they are doing really don't bug me. Its the ones that buy a big caliber, a scope with turrets, and just figure good enough are the ones that scare me. I see way, way more of the latter and hear the horror stories that go with them
Click to expand...

MT FWP found I believe 4 bears this year in SW MT that were all about 3.5-4 ft bears and they believe they were shot by "long range hunters" that didn't realize how small they were when they shot from however far away. I agree the people that try and do the long range thing without lots of bench time scare me... my rifle will shoot and dial to 700 yards but everything would have to be perfect for me to attempt that shot... Just because the rifle can can, doesn't mean I should.
 
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